HC Deb 07 March 1983 vol 38 cc558-60
26. Sir David Price

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what requests he has received for the return of the Elgin marbles; and if he will make a statement.

The Minister for the Arts (Mr. Paul Channon)

The Government have received no formal request for the return of the Elgin marbles.

Sir David Price

Does my right hon. Friend agree that but for the foresight, perseverance and generosity of the seventh Earl of Elgin, who in modern terms spent more than £1½ million, the marbles would no longer exist? Will he therefore tell the Greek Minister of Culture that, with regard to her demand for the return of the Elgin marbles, her own advice of "Never on a Sunday" applies to all other days of the week as well?

Mr. Channon

I note my hon. Friend's view. I agree with the first part of his question. On the point of principle, it must be right to have some international collections of great international significance, and the British museum is paramount among them.

Mr. Christopher Price

Is the Minister aware that the seventh Earl of Elgin was an unscrupulous vandal—

Sir David Price

Shame.

Mr. Christopher Price

—who cut sculptures off the Parthenon that were an integral part of that building? Is the Minister further aware that he was forced to discuss this serious issue at the UNESCO conference in Mexico? Will the right hon. Gentleman take the matter seriously? When he receives a formal request from the Greek Government, will he discuss it seriously instead of refusing to enter into discussions about the matter?

Mr. Channon

As the hon. Gentleman said, this matter was raised at the UNESCO meeting last year. It is an extremely serious issue. I do not wish to quibble with the hon. Gentleman about history, but some hon. Members will at least feel that had it not been for Lord Elgin there would now be no Elgin marbles. It would be a disaster for the world if collections of one culture were available only in that country. We must have some great international collections. The British museum is one. The Elgin marbles were legally obtained, and it remains the Government's view that they should remain in the British museum.

Mr. Cormack

I reinforce the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Eastleigh (Sir D. Price). Will my right hon. Friend repudiate what was said by the hon. Member for Lewisham, West (Mr. Price) about Lord Elgin's actions? Is it not absolutely and incontrovertibly true that had he not brought the marbles here they would have been destroyed—probably by the Turks?

Sir David Price

Quite right.

Mr. Channon

There seems little doubt that had Lord Elgin not brought the marbles here they would not now exist. Parts of the Parthenon are in nine other museums in six countries. The British museum is not alone in this. It is in the interests of everyone, from whichever country he comes, that these great international collections should continue.

Mr. Whitehead

Is the Minister aware that there is a widespread view among Labour Members and in the country that, in spite of the exemplary care that has been taken of the Elgin marbles by the seventh Earl and the British museum, 1803 is not 1983? May not the time have come to reconstitute the Parthenon frieze on an appropriate site as near as possible to the great national monument that it once adorned?

Mr. Channon

I understand that if the Elgin marbles were to go back to Greece they would go from one museum to another. There is no question of reconstituting them on site. As the right hon. Member for Down, South (Mr. Powell) pointed out on a recent television programme, that would be another question. It is proposed that the marbles should move from one museum to another. What would be the point of that?