§ The Lord Privy Seal and Leader of the House of Commons (Mr. John Biffen)I beg to move,
That the following provision about salaries of Members of this House be made—;(1) The salaries of Members of each of the descriptions in column 1 of the following Table—;(a) in respect of service on and after 13th June 1983 and before 1st January 1984 shall be at the yearly rate specified in relation to that description in column 2 of that Table;
| TABLE | |||||
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 |
| Description of Member | Yearly rate of salary from 13th June 1983 to end of 1983 | Yearly rate of salary for 1984 | Yearly rate of salary for 1985 | Yearly rate of salary for 1986 | Yearly rate of salary for 1987 |
| £ | £ | £ | £ | £ | |
| 1. Member not within paragraph 2 | 15,308 | 16,106 | 16,904 | 17,702 | 18,500 |
| 2. Officer of this House or Member receiving a salary under the Ministerial and other Salaries Act 1975 or a pension under section 26 of the Parliamentary and other Pensions Act 1972 | 9,543 | 10,626 | 11,709 | 12,792 | 13,875 |
§
(2) Subject to paragraph (3), in respect of service on and after 1st January 1988—;
(a) the salaries of Members not falling within sub-paragraph (b) shall be at a yearly rate equal to eighty-nine per cent. of the rate which represents the maximum point from time to time on the main national pay scale of the Civil Service grade of Senior Principal or, is such a scale ceases to exist, on the scale which supersedes it; and
(b) the salaries of Officers of this House and Members receiving a salary under the Ministerial and other Salaries Act 1975 or a pension under section 26 of the Parliamentary and other Pensions Act 1972 shall be at a yearly rate equal to sixty-seven per cent. of the rate which represents the maximum point from time to time on the scale referred to in sub-paragraph (a).
(3) Paragraph (2) shall not authorise the making of any payment out of public funds after the end of the period of three months beginning with the day on which any future Parliament first meets unless within that period the continued operation of that paragraph is approved by a Resolution of this House.
§ I gave the House an undertaking on 19 July that the Government would bring in a new effective resolution which would reflect the expression of opinion of the House on the matter of Members' salaries. That is what the motion now before the House sets out of do.
§ The effect of the resolution adopted by the House on 19 July was to increase Members' pay by five equal stages between 13 June 1983 and 1 January 1987, at which point the salary will be £18,500. From 1 January 1988 Members' pay will be set at the level then payable to a civil servant in receipt of £18,500 per annum on 13 June 1983.
§ In seeking to implement the will of the House we had to take account of the fact that on 13 June 1983 no civil servant will be earning precisely £18,500 per annum. That explains the formulation used in the motion. It links the pay of Members to 89 per cent. of the maximum of the pay scale of the senior principal grade which spans £18,500. That gives the figure of just over £18,500.
1152
§
(b) in respect of service on and after 1st January 1984 and before 1st January 1985 shall be at the yearly rate specified in relation to that description in column 3 of that Table;
(c) in respect of service on and after 1st January 1985 and before 1st January 1986 shall be at the yearly rate specified in relation to that description in column 4 of that Table;
(d) in respect of service on and after 1st January 1986 and before 1st January 1987 shall be at the yearly rate specified in relation to that description in column 5 of that Table; and
(e) in respect of service on and after 1st January 1987 and before 1st January 1988 shall be at the yearly rate specified in relation to that description in column 6 of that Table.
§ For Ministers and other office holders the effective resolution will implement the will of the House that in future the parliamentary element in the salaries of Ministers and office holders should move, by five equal stages, until it reaches 75 per cent. of the Back-Bench Members' salary on 1 January 1987.
§ The parliamentary salaries proposed for Members on the one hand and for ministerial and other office holders on the other are set out in the motion. Thus the Government have kept their promise to bring in a revised effective resolution designed to implement the will of the House as expressed on 19 July, and I commend its acceptance.
§ Mr. John McWilliam (Blaydon)I again welcome the statement of the Leader of the House. It is no secret that Labour Members, and indeed many others, felt that it would have been advisable to implement the Plowden committee's report. The House made its will known last week, and I commend the Leader of the House for enshrining that will entirely within that resolution and thank him for it.
§ Sir Hugh Fraser (Stafford)I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House on this Byzantine calculation which fully meets the will of the House.
§ Question put:—;
§ The House divided: Ayes 250, Noes 18.
1154| Division No. 43] | [10.28 pm |
| AYES | |
| Aitken Jonathan | Atkins Robert (South Ribble) |
| Alexander, Richard | Baker, Nicholas (N Dorset) |
| Alison, Rt Hon Michael | Baldry, Anthony |
| Amess, David | Batiste, Spencer |
| Arnold, Tom | Beith, A. J. |
| Atkins, Rt Hon Sir H. | Bellingham, Henry |
| Berry, Sir Anthony | Grylls, Michael |
| Best, Keith | Gummer, John Selwyn |
| Biffen, Rt Hon John | Hamilton, Hon A. (Epsom) |
| Blackburn, John | Hamilton, Neil (Tatton) |
| Bonsor, Sir Nicholas | Hampson, Dr Keith |
| Boothroyd, Miss Betty | Hanley, Jeremy |
| Boscawen, Hon Robert | Hardy, Peter |
| Bottomley, Peter | Hargreaves, Kenneth |
| Bowden, Gerald (Dulwich) | Harvey, Robert |
| Boyson, Dr Rhodes | Havers, Rt Hon Sir Michael |
| Braine, Sir Bernard | Hawkins, Sir Paul (SW N'folk) |
| Brandon-Bravo, Martin | Hawksley, Warren |
| Bright, Graham | Hayhoe, Barney |
| Brown, M. (Brigg & Cl'thpes) | Hayward, Robert |
| Brown, R. (N'c'tle-u-Tyne N) | Heddle, John |
| Bruinvels, Peter | Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael |
| Bryan, Sir Paul | Hickmet, Richard |
| Burt, Alistair | Higgins, Rt Hon Terence L. |
| Butterfill, John | Hirst, Michael |
| Carlisle, John (N Luton) | Holt, Richard |
| Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln) | Home Robertson, John |
| Carttiss, Michael | Hooson, Tom |
| Cartwright, John | Howard, Michael |
| Chalker, Mrs Lynda | Howarth, Gerald (Cannock) |
| Channon, Rt Hon Paul | Howell, Ralph (N Norfolk) |
| Chapman, Sydney | Howells, Geraint |
| Clark, Hon A. (Plym'th S'n) | Hubbard-Miles, Peter |
| Clark, Dr David (S Shields) | Hughes, Mark (Durham) |
| Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) | Hughes, S mon (Southwark) |
| Clarke Kenneth (Rushcliffe) | Hunt, David (Wirral) |
| Clegg, Sir Walter | Hunt, John (Ravensbourne) |
| Colvin, Michael | Hunter, Andrew |
| Concannon, Rt Hon J, D. | Jackson, Robert |
| Conlan, Bernard | Jenkin, Rt Hon Patrick |
| Conway, Derek | Jessel, Toby |
| Coombs, Simon | John, Brynmor |
| Cope, John | Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) |
| Couchman, James | Jones, Robert (W Herts) |
| Crouch, David | Kellett-Bowman, Mrs Elaine |
| Currie, Mrs Edwina | Key, Robert |
| Dicks, T. | King, Roger (B'ham N'field) |
| Dorrell, Stephen | King, Rt Hon Tom |
| Douglas-Hamilton, Lord J. | Knight, Gregory (Derby N) |
| Dover, Denshore | Knowles, Michael |
| du Cann, Rt Hon Edward | Knox, David |
| Duffy, A. E. P. | Lamond, James |
| Dunn, Robert | Lang, Ian |
| Durant, Tony | Latham, Michael |
| Dykes, Hugh | Lawler, Geoffrey |
| Edwards, Rt Hon N. (P'broke) | Lawrence, Ivan |
| Eggar, Tim | Lawson, Rt Hon Nigel |
| Evennett, David | Leadbitter, Ted |
| Eyre, Reginald | Lee, John (Pendle) |
| Favell, Anthony | Leigh, Edward (Gainsbor'gh) |
| Forrester, John | Lennox-Boyd, Hon Mark |
| Forth, Eric | Lester, Jim |
| Franks, Cecil | Lewis, Sir Kenneth (Stamf'd) |
| Fraser, Rt Hon Sir Hugh | Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) |
| Fraser, Peter (Angus East) | Lightbown, David |
| Fry, Peter | Lloyd, Peter, (Fareham) |
| Gale, Roger | Lord, Michael |
| Galley, Roy | Lyell, Nicholas |
| Garel-Jones, Tristan | McCrindle, Robert |
| Goodlad, Alastair | McCurley, Mrs Anna |
| Gourlay, Harry | McDonald, Dr Oonagh |
| Gow, Ian | Macfarlane, Neil |
| Gower, Sir Raymond | McGuire, Michael |
| Grant, Sir Anthony | MacKay, Andrew (Berkshire) |
| Green way, Harry | MacKay, John (Argyll & Bute) |
| Gregory, Conal | McNair-Wilson, P. (New F'st) |
| Griffiths, Peter (Portsm'th N) | McNamara, Kevin |
| Ground, Patrick | McQuarrie, Albert |
| McWilliam, John | Ridley, Rt Hon Nicholas |
| Major, John | Ridsdale, Sir Julian |
| Malins, Humfrey | Robinson, Mark (N'port W) |
| Malone, Gerald | Roe, Mrs Marion |
| Maples, John | Rogers, Allan |
| Marland, Paul | Ross, Stephen (Isle of Wight) |
| Marlow, Antony | Rossi, Sir Hugh |
| Mates, Michael | Rowe, Andrew |
| Mather, Carol | Ryder, Richard |
| Mayhew, Sir Patrick | Sackville, Hon Thomas |
| Merchant, Piers | St. John-Stevas, Rt Hon N. |
| Meyer, Sir Anthony | Sayeed, Jonathan |
| Millan, Rt Hon Bruce | Shaw, Giles (Pudsey) |
| Miller, Hal (B'grove) | Shaw, Sir Michael (Scarb') |
| Mills, Iain (Meriden) | Shelton, William (Streatham) |
| Mills, Sir Peter (West Devon) | Sims, Roger |
| Mitchell, David (NW Hants) | Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) |
| Moate, Roger | Soames, Hon Nicholas |
| Morris, Rt Hon J. (Aberavon) | Spence, John |
| Morris, M. (N'hampton, S) | Spencer, D. |
| Morrison, Hon C. (Devizes) | Spicer, Michael (S Worcs) |
| Moynihan, Hon C. | Stern, Michael |
| Mudd, David | Stevens, Lewis (Nuneaton) |
| Needham, Richard | Stewart, Allan (Eastwood) |
| Neubert, Michael | Stokes, John |
| Newton, Tony | Stradling Thomas, J |
| Nicholls, Patrick | Straw, Jack |
| Normanton, Tom | Tebbit, Rt Hon Norman |
| Norris, Steven | Terlezki, Stefan |
| Osborn, Sir John | Thatcher, Rt Hon Mrs M. |
| Ottaway, Richard | Thompson, Donald (Calder V) |
| Page, John (Harrow W) | Thompson, Patrick (N'ich N) |
| Page, Richard (Herts SW) | Townend, John (Bridlington) |
| Parris, Matthew | Tracey, Richard |
| Patchett, Terry | Trippier, David |
| Patten, John (Oxford) | Waddington, David |
| Pavitt, Laurie | Wakeham, Rt Hon John |
| Pawsey, James | Waldegrave, Hon William |
| Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth | Wardle, C. (Bexhill) |
| Penhaligon, David | Wigley, Dafydd |
| Percival, Rt Hon Sir Ian | Winterton, Mrs Ann |
| Pink, R. Bonner | Winterton, Nicholas |
| Powley, John | Wolfson, Mark |
| Prentice, Rt Hon Reg | Wood, Timothy |
| Price, Sir David | Younger, Rt Hon George |
| Radice, Giles | |
| Raffan, Keith | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Redmond, M. | Mr. Douglas Hogg and |
| Rhys Williams, Sir Brandon | Mr. Tim Sainsbury. |
| NOES | |
| Alton, David | Madden, Max |
| Ashdown, Paddy | Michie, William |
| Barron, Kevin | Nellist, David |
| Beaumont-Dark, Anthony | Patchett, Terry |
| Bermingham, Gerald | Powell, Raymond (Ogmore) |
| Boyes, Roland | Rogers, Allan |
| Cohen, Harry | Skinner, Dennis |
| Corbyn, Jeremy | |
| Fallon, Michael | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Fields, T. (L 'pool Broad Gn) | Mr. Tony Banks and |
| Kilfedder, James A. | Mr. Bob Clay. |
§ Question accordingly agreed to.
§ Mr. SpeakerBefore I call upon the Leader of the House to move motion 8, I inform the House that I have selected the amendment of the right hon. Member for Worthing (Mr. Higgins).
The purpose of the motion is to maintain the present flat rate system of the motor mileage allowance at the current rate of 25.8p a mile. The allowance is regulated by a resolution of the House that was agreed on 22 July 1975. It provides that the rate payable should be the same as the Civil Service rate for journeys made on official business. From 1 October a two-tier structure is to be introduced for the Civil Service mileage allowance, and the effect of the resolution of 22 July 1975 would be to apply the new arrangements automatically to Members. The motion will ensure that the status quo is maintained. It has been moved in response to the strong view that was expressed on 19 July. It was then argued that there should be further consideration of the Civil Service two-tier rate as an appropriate reflection of motoring costs incurred by Members.
Car Mileage Allowance 10.40 pm Mr. Biffen: I beg to move, That, in the opinion of this House, the rate of car mileage allowance payable to Members travelling on Parliamentary duties (and accordingly the rate applicable to the car mileage allowances payable in respect of journeys by the spouse of a Member and journeys by the persons in respect of whom the secretarial and research allowance of a Member is payable) should, for journeys commenced on or after 1st October 1983, continue to be 25.8p per mile, notwithstanding any change with effect from that date in the relevant Civil Service rate of car mileage allowance. In this Resolution "the secretarial and research allowance" has the same meaning as in the Resolution of this House of 19th July 1983 (Office, Secretarial and Research etc. Allowances). The effect of the amendment of my right hon. Friend the Member for Worthing (Mr. Higgins) is to link the motor mileage allowance paid to hon. Members with the higher level of the two-tier rate that is now proposed for the Civil Service. It thus embodies the concept of automaticity while reflecting a concern that the Civil Service rate may rise as a result of cost increases before the House has an opportunity to consider further what the most appropriate future arrangements for Members should be.
It may help the House to know that I can accept my right hon. Friend's amendment on this basis. The Government are content that the motion, as amended, if the House approves it, should continue until such time as the House may decide on alternative arrangements in the light of the further consideration of the subject which is proposed. Meanwhile, I shall consult through the usual channels with a view to having the subject examined after the summer recess in a way that will enable Members to give evidence of their motoring costs. I stress that no change in the existing arrangements that are made secure by the motion can come about without the authority of the House.
§ Mr. Terence Higgins (Worthing)I beg to move, in line 6, to leave out from "mile" to the end of line 7 and insert
and should reflect thereafter any change in the Civil Service rate of car mileage allowance presently set at this level.".I was taught by the late lain Macleod that if an amendment in one's name was accepted by the Government it was good manners and sound politics not to make the two-hour speech in support of the amendment that one might otherwise have made.1156 It is not my intention in the amendment to endorse the suggestion that the mileage allowance should be a two-tier arrangement. The arrangement which has stood us in good stead over many years is one which is much to be preferred. I was worried that my right hon. Friend's amendment would freeze the 25.8p rate at that level for, as far as one could see, all time. It is important that motoring costs incurred by hon. Members going about their legitimate business in the service of their constituents should be covered. Without my amendment, if costs go up there will not be any increase in the car mileage allowance.
The second point of my amendment is that to which my right hon. Friend referred to rather inelegantly as "automaticity". I cannot improve the description. If there are changes in costs, it is right that the changes in allowance be made automatically rather than the Leader of the House having to put down an order to increase the allowance perhaps two or three times a year. I hope that the House will bear in mind the wording of my amendment which I understand to have the effect that I have described. I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for proposing, to accept it.
§ Mr. Jack Dormand (Easington)Perhaps I might speak as a simple layman on behalf of my hon. Friends about what the Leader of the House is accepting. My understanding, from informal discussions today, is that the linkage of the car mileage allowance applies only to the period in which the Leader of the House is considering a new scale or structure. If that is so—;I am happy to be contradicted—;following the results of the inquiry with which the Leader of the House dealt so flexibly in the main debate, there might be a new structure that might include a two-tier system. I and at least some of my hon. Friends want to be absolutely clear about that.
§ Mr. BiffenIt is perfectly true that the motion as amended provides for payment of the present mileage rate of 25.8p or any subsequent alteration to the higher Civil Service rate. When discussions and considerations of an appropriate rate for the House have been concluded, the matter must be resolved by the House. There can be no question of a two-tier rate as the present arrangements will apply until the House authorises a replacement.
§ Mr. DormandCan the Leader of the House say what the Government's view will be then?
§ Mr. BiffenNo. We shall hold the discussions through the usual channels with an open mind.
§ Mr. John McWilliam (Blaydon)It was the clear will of the House last week that, whatever happened to mileage allowances, there must be a single-tier system. I congratulate the Leader of the House on enshrining the will of the House in the original motion. I also congratulate the right hon. Member for Worthing (Mr. Higgins) on his amendment, which takes account of what might happen. I also support my hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Mr. Dormand), in that the Leader of the House must come back to the House if there is any intention to change the system. No hon. Member is arguing about the rate. We look forward to him doing so. I think that he has given us that commitment.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Main Question, as amended, agreed to.
§
Resolved,
That, in the opinion of this House, the rate of car mileage allowance payable to Members travelling on Parliamentary duties (and accordingly the rate applicable to the car mileage allowances payable in respect of journeys by the spouse of a Member and journeys by the persons in respect of whom the secretarial and research allowance of a Member is payable) should, for journeys commenced on or after 1st October 1983, continue to be 25.8p per mile, and should reflect thereafter any change in the Civil Service rate of cat mileage allowance presently set at this level.
In this Resolution "the secretarial and research allowance" has the same meaning as in the Resolution of this House of 19th July 1983 (Office, Secretarial and Research etc. Allowances).