Members' and Ministers' Pay and Allowances (Hansard, 19 July 1983)

§ Dr. Jeremy Bray (Motherwell, South)
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. It is a point of order arising from your selection of amendments but referring to consequences.
The amendment that we understand the Leader of the House will recommend the House to accept, in the name of the hon. member for Poole (Mr. Ward), on Members' expenses—that is amemdment (b) to motion 4 —was tabled only today. It was reasonable for hon. Members to assume that the amendments incorporating the agreement widely reported in the press on Members' pay and allowances were those amendments in the name of the right hon. Member for Taunton (Mr. du Cann) to both motions 2 and 4, the first providing the increases in pay, and the second reducing the secretarial allowance from £13,000 to £11,000. The five amendments in the name of the hon. Member for Poole referred to the total of allowances remaining at £14,000, until yesterday, and therefore plainly did not incorporate the agreement proposed by the Government.
So three groups of amendments were tabled on secretarial allowances, relating to the motion of the Leader of the House, as amended by the amendment of the right hon. Member for Taunton, which would have been selected and divided on, whatever the outcome of the vote on the amendment of the right hon. Member for Taunton. However, as a consequence of the amendment now being tabled, which the Government tabled only today, none of the other amendments can be divided on.
To remedy the matter, Mr. Speaker, I ask you to accept a manuscript amendment to amendment (e) in the names of the hon. Member for Havant (Mr. Lloyd), myself and other Members, so that the substance can be taken as an amendment by the hon. Member for Poole, and so divided on. This is a major question affecting a matter on which hon. Members have a strong view. [Interruption.]

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I am listening to this very complicated point of order.

§ Dr. Bray
It is a question on which many hon. Members in all parties have a strong view—the proper equipment of themselves to perform their duties as Members. If that is ruled out as a result of the Government's quite unprincipled behaviour in tabling an amendment which appeared on the Order Paper only today, through a Back Bencher, the ability of the House to consider the matter will have been frustrated. I therefore ask you, Mr. Speaker, to accept this manuscript amendment.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I must tell the hon. Gentleman that I received a large number of other manuscript amendments this evening. The House is faced with a major problem in dealing with the amendments that are already on the Order Paper, and I am unable to accept any manuscript amendments at this stage.

§ Mr. John McWilliam (Blaydon)
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. In yesterday's Order Paper amendment (b) stated: leave out from 'should' to the end of line 14 and insert 'be raised so as to be £12,964 for the year ending 31st March 1984 and £14,000 for any subsequent year;'". However, in today's Order Paper the figure of £14,000 has been reduced to £12,000. Do you not agree, Mr. Speaker, that that may have misled hon. Members? Would it not be perfectly reasonable to accept a manuscript amendment in this case, because the intention was not clear. and. indeed, has changed, according to the Order Paper. since yesterday?

§ Mr. Speaker
I understand the problem, but, as I have said, I have received a number of other manuscript amendments, and I am not anxious at this stage to make the situation any more complicated than it is. I think that the House feels that we should proceed with the amendments that I have selected.

§ Dr. Bray
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. Since this matter arises from the behaviour of the Leader of the House in changing the motion on the Order Paper between yesterday and today, can the right hon. Gentleman assist us in any way?

§ Mr. Speaker
That is for the Leader of the House to decide.

§ Mr. Joseph Ashton (Bassetlaw)
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. We came to see you this afternoon about motion No. 7 and your selection of amendments. You have kindly sent us a note saying that the amendment will now be called. I take it that it will be called.

§ Mr. Speaker
The hon. Gentleman gazumps me. My selection of amendments has been published and there is an addition. I have selected amendment (a) on page 439 to motion No. 7.

§ The Lord Privy Seal and Leader of the House of Commons (Mr John Biffen)
I beg to move, That, in the opinion of this House, the salaries payable to Members of this House in respect of service on and after 13th June 1983 should be at the following yearly rates—

(1) £15,090 for Members not falling within paragraph (2); and

(2) £8,800 for Officers of this House and Members receiving a salary under the Ministerial and other Salaries Act 1975 or a pension under section 26 of the Parliamentary and other Pensions Act 1972.

I understand that with your agreement, Mr. Speaker, it may be convenient to discuss with it the following motions that stand in my name:
No. 3, That, the salaries payable to Members of this House in respect of service on and after 13th June 1983 should be at the following yearly rates—

(1) £15,090 for Members not falling within paragraph (2); and

(2) £8,800 for Officers of this House and Members receiving a salary under the Ministerial and other Salaries Act 1975 or a pension under section 26 of the Parliamentary and other Pensions Act 1972.

267 No. 4, That, in the opinion of this House—

5 (a) the limit specified in paragraph (a) of the third Resolution of this House of 10th June 1982 in relation to the allowances payable in connection with a Member's office, secretarial and research expenses should, for the year ending 31st March 1984 be raised to £12,964, and for any subsequent year should be replaced by two limits as follows—

10 (i) a limit of £13,000 should apply to the allowance (to be known as the secretarial and research allowance) payable to a Member in respect of expenses incurred for his Parliamentary duties on secretarial assistance and on research assistanc for work undertaken in the proper performance of those duties, and

(ii) a limit of £1,000 should apply to the allowance payable to any Member in respect of expenses incurred for his Parliamentary duties as general office expenses;

15 (b) the secretarial and research allowance should be payable only in respect of expenses disbursed on the Member's behalf by the Fees Office in accordance with arrangements approved by Mr Speaker;

(c) the expenses in respect of which the allowance to which the limit specified in paragraph (a)(ii) of this Resolution applies is payable should include expenses incurred in the purchase of office equipment;

20 (d) the limit specified in paragraph (b) of the third Resolution of this House of 5th June 1981 (provision for enabling a Member to make pension contributions in respect of persons in the payment of whose salaries expenses are incurred by him) should be increased so as to be £1,216 for the year ending 31st March 1984 and £1,300 for any subsequent year;

25 (e) arrangemen:s approved by Mr Speaker should be made for contributions in respect of the allowance to which the limit specified in paragraph (d) of this Resolution applies to be made by the Fees Office on behalf of, and as if authorised by, the Member;

30 (f) provision should be made for—

(i) the extension of the facilities now available to Members for free travel by rail, sea, air or public road transport, and

(ii) the payment, at the rate applicable to Members travelling on Parliamentary duties, of a car mileage allowance,

35 to persons in respect of whom the secretarial and research allowance of a Member is (or after 31st March 1984 will be) payable so as to cover, in the period of 12 months beginning with 1st January 1984 and every subsequent period of 12 months beginning with 1st January, not more than nine return journeys between London and that Member's constituency made in connection with the Member's Parliamentary duties;

40 45 (g) provision should be made under arrangements approved by Mr Speaker for an allowance to be payable towards defraying amounts which are paid by the Fees Office on behalf of a person who has ceased to be a Member of this House, being amounts paid, under any enactment relating to redundancy, in connection with 45 the redundancy of a person in respect of whose salary before the redundancy the secretarial and research allowance was (or after 31st March 1984 would have been) payable.

No. 5, That, in the opinion of this House, paragraph (2)(b) of the second Resolution of this House of 22nd July 1975 (overnight expenses allowance to be 144 times the Class A (i) London rate for a night's subsistence as obtaining in the Cavil Service) should have effect for the period of 12 months ending with 31st March 1985 and every subsequent period of 12 months ending with 31st March as if for '144' there were substituted: '136'. No. 6, That, as from 10th June 1983, for the Schedule in Resolution of the House of 20th December 1971 relating to Parliamentary Expenses, as substituted by the Resolution of the House of 15th March 1974, there shall be substituted the following— No. 7, That, in the opinion of this House, provision should be made in respect of the grant payable in accordance with paragraph (9) of the second Resolution of this House of 20th December 1971 and the fourth Resolution of this House of 4th March 1980 to persons who on a dissolution of Parliament cease to be Members of this House as follows:—

(1) subject to paragraphs (2) and (3), that grant should be payable (and be treated in relation to the dissolution of Parliament on 13th May 1983 as having been payable) whenever, at the general election consequent upon a dissolution of Parliament, a person who was a Member of this House immediately before the dissolution does not stand for election to this House or, if he does, is not elected;

(2) that grant should not be payable, on the dissolution of the present or any future Parliament, to a person who has attained the age of 65 before the dissolution; and

(3) on the dissolution of the present or any future Parliament, no period of service as a Member of this House should be taken into account in accordance with the said fourth Resolution if that period has been taken into account on a previous occasion on which a grant was payable in accordance with one or both of those Resolutions.