HC Deb 26 January 1983 vol 35 cc883-4
5. Mr. Canavan

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what subjects he expects to discuss at his next meeting with the football authorities.

Mr. Macfarlane

There is no fixed agenda at this moment, but, as the House will expect, uppermost in my mind is violence associated with football.

Mr. Canavan

Will the Minister arrange a meeting with his Scottish counterpart and all the football authorities to discuss the vexed question of charges for the policing of football grounds, which have to be met out of the limited resources of the clubs? As the problem is even worse in Scotland, where, for example, the SFA had to fork out £17,000 to police only 25,000 spectators at the Scotland v Wales international at Hampden last year, will the hon. Gentleman consider providing free police cover for public meetings, or does he want a situation to develop whereby some of the policemen strolling around the park will be paid more per hour than some of the players on the field?

Mr. Macfarlane

I suspect that in the latter part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question he was dealing with the exception rather than the norm. I do not undertake to promote the view that he has presented. It is a sad reflection on the level of violence that most people expect at some football matches nowadays, certainly in the professional game, that there has to be a large police presence. These are matters that will have been taken on board by my appropriate colleagues in the Scottish Office. However, they are predominantly matters for the Home Office in England.

Mr. Farr

Some of the recent outbreaks of hooliganism among soccer crowds may cost a lot of money to correct, because money will have to be spent on taking appropriate safety measures. Will my hon. Friend consider approaching our right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer before the Budget with a view to easing the burden of VAT and other taxes on some soccer clubs?

Mr. Macfarlane

Those representations have been made to me by various representatives of the football authorities and the pools promoters. I take note of what my hon. Friend says.

Mr. Lofthouse

What advice will the Minister give to the football authorities to deal with the louts who are threatening the very existence of a great football club within 12 miles of my constituency?

Mr. Macfarlane

I do not think that anybody underestimates the severity of the events of last Saturday. They were deeply depressing and I do not suppose that anyone wants to see a great club go under because of the actions of fewer than 1 per cent. of the spectators on that occasion. I can only hope that the football commission, which is investigating the occurrence, as well as my officials, who visited the ground last week, will unearth exactly what went wrong. A problem is coming this Saturday, when there will be four major cup ties in our capital city. No amount of planning and preparation by the football clubs, the football authorities and the stadium authorities will ensure that these wretched louts are eliminated.

Mr. Nicholas Winterton

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is not the football clubs that are to blame for this ridiculous and disgraceful hooliganism? The courts do not appear to hand out the right sentences to those who are convicted of hooliganism and vandalism. Will he make the strongest representations to the Home Secretary to ensure that our judiciary deals with the issue in a much more forceful and robust manner?

Mr. Macfarlane

I am grateful to have my hon. Friend's support. The Criminal Justice Act 1982 gave the courts greater power and authority than they had ever had before. I can only wish that the magistrates courts will use some of the 120 attendance centres.