§ The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House I shall be having further meetings later today, including one with Signor Fanfani, the Prime Minister of Italy. This evening I shall be giving a dinner in his honour at 10 Downing Street.
§ Mr. WardI thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. Does she agree that most of the hardships inflicted on the public during the recent water strike resulted from the trade union leaders concerned using their monopoly supply position and a closed shop to break agreements that they had freely entered into? Does this not show the need for a withdrawal of trade union immunities where essential services are concerned and for binding arbitration?
§ The Prime MinisterI agree with my hon. Friend about the abuse of monopoly power. It seems sometimes to be used to give the producer what he wants rather than the consumer what he or she needs or wants. There was an agreement between the water workers and the employers about binding arbitration. That agreement was broken. Another agreement was made, when they first went to ACAS, with the mediator. That agreement, too, was broken. So there can be agreements that are broken. We are looking at the consequences of this for future legislation and the need for a statutory duty to continue the supply of essential services.
§ Mr. FootDoes the right hon. Lady not agree that much the clearest lesson to be drawn from the water strike is how damaging it is for the Government to accept the advice of the Secretary of State for Employment? Does she not understand that if she had consulted my right hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Ardwick (Mr. Kaufman) she would not have come to the Dispatch Box with the false figures that she has provided today and my right hon. Friend might have saved her from a great deal of embarrassment?
§ The Prime MinisterI have not mentioned any figures so far today, none at all. What the water strike has shown is that there are people who are prepared for their own personal advantage—
§ Mr. William HamiltonThe right hon. Lady.
§ The Prime Minister—to attempt to withhold essential commodities and services from old and young alike, and that people who attempt to do that will be supported by the Opposition.
§ Mr. FootThe right hon. Lady has it wrong again. If she really wants to stop strikes, why does she not compare her record in that matter with that of the Labour Government? She will then discover that the number of working days lost under her Administration has been 40 per cent. higher than it was under the Labour Administration. That is because she accepts the advice of her Secretary of State for Employment.
§ The Prime MinisterNonsense. Did the right hon. Gentleman condemn the water strike, or was he on the side of the strikers?
§ Mr. FootOf course I did not condemn the strike, because the strikers have a right to justice under this Government. [HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear".]
§ The Prime MinisterDo not the consumers, the pensioners and the family have a right to justice, and why did the right hon. Gentleman prefer to—(Interruption.)—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I cannot hear what the Prime Minister is saying.
§ Mr. William HamiltonThe Prime Minister is asking questions.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. If the House knew the correspondence that I received after last week's exhibition, it would ensure that every one has a right to be heard here.
§ The Prime MinisterThe right hon. Gentleman, true to his typical beliefs, preferred to be the strikers' friend against the consumer, and was prepared to see old-age pensioners and mothers with young children go to 1051 standpipes rather than urge the trade unions to honour a clause in their original agreement. As a result, the consumer lost, the strikers lost—
§ Mr. CanavanThe right hon. Lady lost.
§ The Prime MinisterWe now have the new socialism, the new caring society, in which the trade unions care for themselves but not for those whom they serve.
§ Mr. Roy JenkinsDoes—[Interruption.] No doubt there will be even more noise next week when the Labour party has had time to get over the humiliation of Bermondsey and the Conservative has lost his deposit. In the meantime, will the Prime Minister, instead of merely exchanging insults with the Leader of the Opposition, tell us what lessons she learnt from the water strike? Does not the lack of a coherent incomes policy in the public sector give the worst of both worlds—great inconvenience to the public and a vacillating approach to the level of settlements?
§ The Prime MinisterThe right hon. Gentleman has forgotten the lessons of history. If one can break an agreement of the kind that the water workers broke in breaking the original NJIC agreement, one can also break, as we know, a statutory incomes policy. Has the right hon. Gentleman forgotten that?