HC Deb 15 February 1983 vol 37 cc147-8
9. Mr. David Atkinson

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what plans he has further to encourage health authorities to privatise specialist services.

Mr. Fowler

The Government will be issuing a draft circular very shortly to health authorities, and to the staff side, which will cover the use of private contractors for hospital domestic, catering and laundry services.

Mr. Atkinson

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the contracting out of hospital cleaning, laundry and catering services offers the best hope for more resources being available for patient care, as well as offering better wages and working conditions for employees? Will my right hon. Friend therefore tell the House why there has been such a long delay and such vacillation in issuing the instructions to health authorities to encourage them to put the services out to tender?

Mr. Fowler

There has been no delay or vacillation. The Government are committed to ensuring that the private sector should be given the opportunity to tender for a range of services on the basis of fair competition. I hope that when my hon. Friend has the opportunity to see the proposals that we shall be making he will welcome them.

Mr. Ashley

Is the Secretary of State aware that in north Staffordshire sufficient orthotists—people who fit splints and braces—cannot be found because the pay is grossly inadequate when compared to the private sector? Is that not very damaging to the NHS, and will the Secretary of State see what he can do about giving adequate pay to orthotists in the Health Service?

Mr. Fowler

I cannot answer that specific point, but the right hon. Gentleman will understand that the whole problem of pay and pay determination is under consideration at the moment.

Mr. Eggar

Will the proposals give a clear obligation to the health authorities to put these services out to bids? Will there be a clear obligation to accept those bids if they are more than 10 per cent. cheaper than internal services?

Mr. Fowler

I must ask my hon. Friend to wait a few days for the draft circular. What we hope and are aiming to achieve is that when tenders show that there is a financial advantage to use outside contractors, local authorities will use those outside contractors for the good reason that money and resources released in that way can then be used for patient care.

Mrs. Dunwoody

Will the Minister inquire from the districts how many of them have brought in private contractors, but have decided that it is an inefficient, incompetent and expensive way to provide services and have had to abandon the nonsense?

Mr. Fowler

One of the problems has been that there has been no fairness in the comparison of tenders between outside contractors and the NHS. If the hon. Lady wishes an example of that she should look at VAT, where the positions of local authorities and health authorities contrast. I should have thought that if savings could be had within the health service, and that money could then be directed to patient care, the hon. Lady would support the policy, not oppose it.

Mrs. Dunwoody

Does the Minister realise that as many people working as ancillary workers in the NHS are already paid such a miserable wage, there is little likelihood that anybody else would work for those rates anyway?

Mr. Fowler

If the hon. Lady is as confident as that, she will not mind outside tenders being sought.