HC Deb 15 February 1983 vol 37 cc149-50
12. Mr. Kenneth Carlisle

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services how many people are currently receiving the state retirement pension.

Mr. Fowler

At 30 September 1982 there were 9.2 million retirement pensions in payment.

Mr. Carlisle

Does my right hon. Friend agree that although there are more pensioners now than in 1979, pensions since then have risen by more than the rate of inflation and that as a result a greater share of the nation's resources are going to the elderly? Does that not prove that the Government have stood by their pledge to the elderly?

Mr. Fowler

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. It certainly establishes what we have said, that we will maintain pensions and other long-term related benefits in line with prices. As I have already said, the standard basic pension has increased by 68.5 per cent., compared with the rise in the cost of living of 61 per cent. since November 1978.

Mr. Ennals

So, 9.2 million will receive the benefit, or the disastrous consequences, of the claw back. Is the Secretary of State aware that the miserly increase that there has been for pensioners since this Government came to power compares very badly with the 20 per cent. increase, in real terms, in what pensioners got during the period of the Labour Government?

Mr. Fowler

The right hon. Gentleman takes us back to a previous question. I ask him to await the Budget for the decisions about which he is now asking. On his comparison, I remind the right hon. Gentleman of something that he may have forgotten, which is that during the period 1974 to 1979 inflation in this country went up by 110 per cent. That was not in the interests of the elderly.

Mr. John

Will the Secretary of State accept that, in real terms, taking into account the cost of living, pensions went up in the same period by 20 per cent? Will he now have the grace to admit that?

Mr. Fowler

I have conceded that in real terms pensions did go up, but the hon. Gentleman cannot simply cast to one side the 110 per cent. increase in inflation, which had all kinds of impacts on the elderly, industry and wealth creation in this country. Where does the hon. Gentleman think wealth comes from?

Mr. Rathbone

Will my right hon. Friend accept from me, from Conservative Members, and from all pensioners, that this Government have looked after pensioners' interests extremely well? Will he consider again the question of increasing pensions for those who have gone to live abroad and who have been unable to benefit from the recent increases brought in by the Government?

Mr. Fowler

I shall re-examine the position in that respect, because I know that there is concern about it. It is clear that it is a matter of resources and priorities, but I give my hon. Friend the assurance that he seeks.