§ 4. Mr. Ioan Evansasked the Secretary of State for Employment what is his policy regarding the future of jobcentres.
§ The Under-Secretary of State for Employment (Mr. John Selwyn Gummer)The Government believe that an 864 efficient and economical public employment service has a worthwhile role to play. We are pleased that, in response to the recommendations of a recent Rayner scrutiny report on the service, the Manpower Services Commission is making a number of changes to improve efficiency and reduce costs.
§ Mr. EvansDoes the Minister realise that if we are to return to a policy of full employment those jobcentres will be required by the next Government, if not by this Government? Will he resist any attempts to close existing jobcentres or to move them away from the high streets to the side streets?
§ Mr. GummerThey are necessary not only for a future Labour Government but for the next Conservative Government. We want an economical service, and it is necessary from time to time to ensure that the service is used for the best purpose.
§ Mrs. Shirley WilliamsIs the Minister aware that the jobcentre and the MSC headquarters in Liverpool, one of the most hard-hit cities in Britain for unemployment, are both due to be closed? Does the hon. Gentleman believe that a policy of closing jobcentres makes sense at a time when the MSC is predicting 3.3 million unemployed next year?
§ Mr. GummerI am sure that the right hon. Lady will agree that in those circumstances it is important to ensure that we have a sensible and economic service. Therefore, if the MSC decides to consolidate its centres in Manchester, that would seem to be a sensible answer to the problems.
§ Mr. HaselhurstDoes my hon. Friend agree that jobcentres, essentially a good idea, have often been spoilt by the choice of over-expensive premises?
§ Mr. GummerIt is important to ensure that we have a jobcentre service that meets our needs. To do that in the most economical way is sensible and prudent housekeeping.
§ Mr. Barry JonesThe Minister's reply is disturbing and complacent when the jobless totals are rocketing. Is it not diabolical that the Government should contemplate the first steps in the destruction of a fine service for the unemployed when 250,000 people under the age of 18 are out of work, when there are over 1 million long-term unemployed, when black people are experiencing disproportionate job losses and when women, too, are suffering disproportionately in their job hunting? Do we not need more rather than fewer jobcentres?
§ Mr. GummerI am sure that the House will have noted the hon. Gentleman's suggestion that it is in some way complacent to want an economical service. Surely we should have a service that meets Britain's needs. As the hon. Gentleman comes from Wales, he will know that there are twice as many jobcentres—
§ Mr. Barry JonesNo.
§ Mr. GummerThere are twice as many jobcentres per unit of the population in Wales than in the rest of Britain. Therefore, if we are to have a sensible service, we must meet existing needs, not some airy-fairy needs as suggested by Labour Members.
§ Mr. HillIs my hon. Friend satisfied with the direction, advice and facilities of the jobcentres for those wishing to set up in business on their own? Is there the expertise necessary to direct youngsters into that area?
§ Mr. GummerI am sure that there are skills which we ought to have but do not have at the moment. We are hoping to do more in that regard. The jobcentres exist to find jobs for people, not to meet other demands which seem to be proposed by Labour Members.