Constitutional Reform (Hansard, 2 February 1983)

§ 9. Mr. Home Robertson
asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what progress has been made with the intentions of Her Majesty's Government to hold discussions about the future government of Scotland.

§ Mr. George Younger
Discussions about the future government of Scotland have been held and changes were introduced in the procedures of this House affecting the Scottish Grand Committee, including provision for meetings in Edinburgh.

§ Mr. Home Robertson
Will the right hon. Gentleman reflect on the declarations of a Tory commitment to devolution that were given by Lord Home, the right hon. Members for Sidcup (Mr. Heath) and for North Angus and Mearns (Mr. Buchanan-Smith), and even the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs? Does he believe that road shows of Committees of the House are any substitute for Scottish devolution?

§ Mr. Younger
The hon. Gentleman does not do much service to the people who work in Parliament for Scotland if he suggests that meetings of the Scottish Grand Committee are not worth having.

§ Mr. Donald Stewart
They are a waste of time.

§ Mr. Younger
All previous Governments, including the Labour Government, maintained that such meetings were impossible, yet the Government have achieved it.

§ Mr. Grimond
Can the Secretary of State tell us whether the Government are in favour of Scottish devolution and there being some real power in Scotland? Or are they against it, or are they waiting to be told what to do by some other party?

§ Mr. Younger
It depends on what the right hon. Gentleman means. If he means an extra layer of government, and taxes on the Scots to pay for it, I am against it and I believe that most of Scotland is, too.

§ Lord James Douglas-Hamilton
As we have serious economic problems, does my right hon. Friend agree that this is not the time to contemplate a major upheaval?

§ Mr. Donald Stewart
That is why we need it.

§ Lord James Douglas-Hamilton
Will my right hon. Friend do everything in his power to encourage further decentralisation, such as has happened with the headquarters of the Forestry Commission, which now operates extremely successfully from my constituency?

§ Mr. Younger
There is a great deal of responsibility that can be devolved in that way. I detect little interest in Scotland in a new round of vast and interminable constitutional arguments when there are much more important things to do.

§ Mr. McKelvey
Will the Secretary of State consider supporting the Bill of my hon. Friend the Member for West Stirlingshire (Mr. Canavan) on the future of the Scottish Parliament?

§ Mr. Younger
The hon. Member for West Stirlingshire (Mr. Canavan) is not here to speak to his Bill, but I am bound to say that such a Bill supported by the hon. Gentleman is not likely to get much support from me.

§ Mr. Gordon Wilson
As the Secretary of State in Cabinet and the Labour party in Scotland have lost the battle with English colleagues over the proposed dilution of industrial incentive schemes in Scotland, does he not now think that it is time that Scotland had a Parliament equipped with industrial and economic powers, and with access to the oil revenues that are Scotland's by right?

§ Mr. Younger
I do not know how the hon. Gentleman has the cheek even to raise his head on the subject of devolution, considering that his party is the one party that is resolutely opposed to every conceivable form of devolution because it wants to break Scotland off from the rest of the United Kingdom.

§ Sir Russell Fairgrieve
Does my right hon. Friend agree that, despite the furore and interesting views expressed in the past decade on devolution, if his constituency is anything like mine, at present there is no interest in that subject?

§ Mr. Younger
I agree with my hon. Friend. As I have said, I do not detect anyone in Scotland who is keen to pay extra taxes for an extra layer of government.

§ Mr. Harry Ewing
Does the Secretary of State not regret that his first act as Secretary of State was to take the Scotland Act of the statute book? Is he aware that the people of Scotland now appreciate that their only chance of a Scottish Assembly is when a Labour Government come to power? Is he further aware that when the Labour party comes to power after the next election it will set up a Scottish Assembly, which will meet in Edinburgh?

§ Mr. Younger
I was interested in the hon. Gentleman's forecast. I shall leave a note for my grandson so that he can notice this, when a Labour Government come to power. The hon. Gentleman should be careful about making any commitments on devolution. He must know as well as everyone else in the House that he has no chance of carrying all the members of his party with him on that subject.