HC Deb 14 December 1983 vol 50 cc1134-7

Motion made, and Question proposed, That Mr. Robert Harvey, Mr. Tom Hooson, Mr. F'eter Hubbard-Miles, Mr. Gwilym Jones, Dr. John Marek, Sir Anthony Meyer, Mr. Keith Raffan, Mr. Stefan Terlezki, Dr. Roger Thomas, Mr. Gareth-Wardell and Mr. Dafydd Wigley he members of the Welsh Affairs Committee. — [Sir Philip Holland, on behalf of the Committee of Selection.]

Amendment proposed to the Question, pursuant to the Order [12 December], leave out 'Mr. Robert Harvey'. —[Mr. Beith.]

Question put, That the amendment be made:—

The House divided: Ayes 25, Noes 112.

Divison No. 105] [1.44 am
Beith, A. J. Maxton, John
Bruce, Malcolm Owen, Rt Hon Dr David
Carlile, Alexander (Montg'y) Parry, Robert
Foulkes, George Penhaligon, David
Freud, Clement Powell, Raymond (Ogmore)
Home Robertson, John Ross, Stephen (Isle of Wight)
Howells, Geraint Smith, Rt Hon J. (M'kl'ds B)
Hughes, Simon (Southwark) Steel, Rt Hon David
Johnston, Russell Thomas, Dafydd (Merioneth)
Kennedy, Charles Wallace, James
Kirkwood, Archibald
Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) Tellers for the Ayes:
Lloyd, Tony (Stretford) Mr. Michael Meadowcroft and Mr. Dafydd Wigley.
Maclennan, Robert
Marek, Dr John
Ashby, David MacKay, Andrew (Berkshire)
Atkins, Rt Hon Sir H. Maclean, David John.
Baldry, Anthony McNair-Wilson, M. (N'bury)
Batiste, Spencer McWilliam, John
Beggs, Roy Maginnis, Ken
Best, Keith Major, John
Biggs-Davison, Sir John Malone, Gerald
Boscawen, Hon Robert Mates, Michael
Bottomley, Peter Mather, Carol
Bright, Graham Maxwell-Hyslop, Robin
Burt, Alistair Miller, Hal (B'grove)
Campbell-Savours, Dale Molyneaux, Rt Hon James
Carttiss, Michael Neubert, Michael
Churchill, W. S. Newton, Tony
Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) Nicholls, Patrick
Clegg, SirWalter Nicholson, J.
Cocks, Rt Hon M. (Bristol S.) Osborn, Sir John
Conway, Derek Ottaway, Richard
Cope, John Page, Richard (Herts SW)
Couchman, James Paisley, Rev Ian
Cowans, Harry Parris, Matthew
Currie, Mrs Edwina Pawsey, James
Dixon, Donald Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth
Dykes, Hugh Powell, Rt Hon J. E. (S Down)
Emery, Sir Peter Powley, John
Forsythe, Clifford (S Antrim) Proctor, K. Harvey
Fox, Marcus Rathbone, Tim
Garel-Jones, Tristan Ross, Wm. (Londonderry)
Goodlad, Alastair Rowe, Andrew
Gorst, John Ryder, Richard
Greenway, Harry Sainsbury, Hon Timothy
Hamilton, Hon A. (Epsom) Sayeed, Jonathan
Hanley, Jeremy Sims, Roger
Harrison, Rt Hon Walter Skinner, Dennis
Haselhurst, Alan Smyth, Rev W. M. (Belfast S)
Haynes, Frank Soames, Hon Nicholas
Hayward, Robert Speed, Keith
Henderson, Barry Spence, John
Hickmet, Richard Spencer, D.
Hind, Kenneth Stern, Michael
Hirst, Michael Stevens, Lewis (Nuneaton)
Hogg, Hon Douglas (Gr'th'm) Stewart, Andrew (Sherwood)
Hogg, N. (C'nauld & Kilsyth) Stradling Thomas, J.
Holland, Sir Philip (Gedling) Terlezki, Stefan
Howarth, Gerald (Cannock) Thompson, Patrick (N'ich N)
Hunt, David (Wirral) Thorne, Neil (Ilford S)
Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) Thurnham, Peter
Knight, Gregory (Derby N) van Straubenzee, SirW.
Knowles, Michael Wakeham, Rt Hon John
Lang, Ian Wardle, C. (Bexhill)
Leigh, Edward (Gainsbor'gh) Warren, Kenneth
Lilley, Peter Watts, John
Lord, Michael Wheeler, John
Loyden, Edward Wood, Timothy
Lyell, Nicholas
McCusker, Harold Tellers for the Noes:
Macfarlane, Neil Sir Anthony Meyer and Mr. Peter Hubbard-Miles.
McKay, Allen (Penistone)

Question accordingly negatived.

Main Question put:—

The House divided: Ayes 102, Noes 19.

Division No. 106] [1.55 am
Ashby, David Carttiss, Michael
Atkins, Rt Hon Sir H. Churchill, W. S.
Baldry, Anthony Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford)
Batiste, Spencer Cocks, Rt Hon M. (Bristol S.)
Beggs, Roy Conway, Derek
Best, Keith Cope, John
Biffen, Rt Hon John Couchman, James
Biggs-Davison, Sir John Cowans, Harry
Boscawen, Hon Robert Currie, Mrs Edwina
Bottomley, Peter Dixon, Donald
Bright, Graham Forsythe, Clifford (S Antrim)
Burt, Alistair Fox, Marcus
Campbell-Savours, Dale Garel-Jones, Tristan
Goodlad, Alastair Nicholson, J.
Gorst, John Ottaway, Richard
Hamilton, Hon A. (Epsom) Page, Richard (Herts SW)
Hanley, Jeremy Paisley, Rev Ian
Harrison, Rt Hon Walter Parry, Robert
Harvey, Robert Pawsey, James
Haselhurst, Alan Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth
Haynes, Frank Powell, Rt Hon J. E. (S Down)
Hayward, Robert Powley, John
Henderson, Barry Proctor, K. Harvey
Hickmet, Richard Rathbone, Tim
Hirst, Michael Ross, Wm. (Londonderry)
Hogg, Hon Douglas (Gr'th'm) Rowe, Andrew
Holland, Sir Philip (Gedling) Ryder, Richard
Howarth, Gerald (Cannock) Sainsbury, Hon Timothy
Hunt, David (Wirral) Sayeed, Jonathan
Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) Sims, Roger
Knight, Gregory (Derby N) Smyth, Rev W. M. (Belfast S)
Knowles, Michael Soames, Hon Nicholas
Lang, Ian Spence, John
Lilley, Peter Spencer, D.
Lord, Michael Stern, Michael
Loyden, Edward Stevens, Lewis (Nuneaton)
Lyell, Nicholas Stradling Thomas, J.
McCusker, Harold Terlezki, Stefan
Macfarlane, Neil Thomas, Dafydd (Merioneth)
MacKay, Andrew (Berkshire) Thompson, Donald (Calder V)
Maclean, David John. Thompson, Patrick (N'ich N)
McNair-Wilson, M. (N'bury) Thurnham, Peter
McWilliam, John van Straubenzee, Sir W.
Maginnis, Ken Wakeham, Rt Hon John
Major, John Wardle, C. (Bexhill)
Malone, Gerald Warren, Kenneth
Mates, Michael Watts, John
Mather, Carol Wigley, Dafydd
Maxwell-Hyslop, Robin Wood, Timothy
Molyneaux, Rt Hon James
Neubert, Michael Tellers for the Ayes:
Newton, Tony Sir Anthony Meyer and Mr. Peter Hubbard-Miles.
Nicholls, Patrick
Bruce, Malcolm Patchett, Terry
Carlile, Alexander (Montg'y) Penhaligon, David
Freud, Clement Pike, Peter
Howells, Geraint Powell, Raymond (Ogmore)
Hughes, Simon (Southwark) Ross, Stephen (Isle of Wight)
Kennedy, Charles Steel, Rt Hon David
Kirkwood, Archibald Wallace, James
Lloyd, Tony (Stretford)
Maclennan, Robert Tellers for the Noes:
Marek, Dr John Mr. A. J. Beith and Mr. Russell Johnston.
Meadowcroft, Michael
Owen, Rt Hon Dr David

Question accordingly agreed to.

Ordered, That Mr. Robert Harvey, Mr. Tom Hooson, Mr. Peter Hubbard-Miles, Mr. Gwilym Jones, Dr. John Marek, Sir Anthony Meyer, Mr. Keith Raffan, Mr. Stefan Terlezki, Dr. Roger Thomas, Mr. Gareth Wardell and Mr. Dafydd Wigley be members of the Welsh Affairs Committee.

2.3 am

Mr. David Steel (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale)

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. It will be within your recollection and that of the House that a short while ago the Chairman of the Committee of Selection told the House that the matter of appointments to Select Committees was not something in which the Whips should be involved. It will be obvious to all that that was not only wide of the truth but the reverse of it.

Sir Philip Holland


Mr. Beith

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. Before you call the hon Member for Gedling (sir P. Holland), you should know that the Chairman of the Committee of Selection was in the Lobby thanking hon. Members for voting the way that he had claimed he himself would not vote. He stood in the Lobby throughout the preceding Division, thanking hon. Members for being present.

Sir Philip Holland

With permission, Mr. Speaker, I shall answer that allegation.

I was in the Lobby to thank hon. Members who had stayed on a series of private Members' motions. I was in the side where the majority of hon. Members were and I thanked the majority. The Members who were in the other side were there for a very good reason, to promote their own amendment. Therefore, the Members who stayed not to promote an amendment were the ones I had to thank

Mr. Peter Bottomley (Eltham)

Given the allegation by the Liberal Whip, the hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mr. Beith), the explanation my hon. Friend the Chairman of the Committee of Selection, and the evidence of those hon. Members who were there in the Division Lobby, which the Liberals were not, I think that it would be appropriate for the hon. Member to withdraw his allegation

Mr. Simon Hughes (Southwark and Bermondsey)

On one matter that the House discussed, the recommendation of the Committee of Selection was supported by a minority, not by the majority who voted. In that instance, surely it would have been appropriate—and I respect the impartiality of the Chairman—that he should have been in the relevant Lobby taking the view that his Committee took. What the hon. Member says, therefore, does not conceal the fact that he had a consistent attitude throughout the debate and it does not support what he now says to the House

Mr. Speaker

None of these are matters for the Chair.