§ Q1. Mr. Eggarasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 13 December.
§ The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today. This evening I hope to have an audience of Her Majesty the Queen.
§ Mr. EggarDoes not the news that the NGA is to picket again at Warrington challenge the whole basis of our democratic values? Surely all of us in this House have the right and duty to protect employees' decisions as to whether they should join a closed shop. If we do not do that we shall see our democracy undermined.
§ The Prime MinisterI am not quite certain whether the NGA has decided to picket again, but I wholly agree with my hon. Friend that the employees at the Warrington Messenger Group have exercised their right by ballot to reject a closed shop. They must be protected in the exercise of that right, and this dispute is about the NGA attempting to intimidate them to make them, nevertheless, join a closed shop. That is totally and utterly wrong and the law must be seen to protect those employees.
§ Mr. KinnockWill the Prime Minister now welcome the decision of the NGA to suspend its strike? Will she use the pause that that has now made available to exercise her powers to bring the various parties together to produce a settlement? Will she, for instance, ask ACAS to convene a committee of inquiry?
§ The Prime MinisterNo. ACAS was set up by the Labour Government. It is there to conciliate. That is its job and it is not for the Government to intervene.
§ Mr. KinnockDoes not the Prime Minister recognise that if others such as ACAS are effectively prohibited from exercising their function of conciliation by the straitjacket legislation that lies at the source of this conflict, she has a direct and absolute responsibility to accept that the buck 832 stops with her? She should exercise her power. If she will not do so, will she give way to allow others to get power so that they can fulfil that responsibility?
§ The Prime MinisterThe right hon. Gentleman makes it clear that what the Opposition really want is for the Government to force Mr. Shah to give in to the union's unreasonable demands. That we shall not do. On the Government side we shall uphold the right of employees to reject a closed shop—a right given to them by the law.
§ Mr. KinnockWhat the Opposition want is the resolution of a dispute that has been turned by Government legislation from a local problem into an industrial volcano. That is the direct responsibility of the Government. The Opposition and the country want the Government to fulfil their responsibilities to end this dispute now.
§ The Prime MinisterWhat I believe the people want, and what I believe they voted for, is for the law to uphold the right of employees to reject a closed shop. Does the right hon. Gentleman condemn the NGA for contravening the law? Will he uphold the right of the individual to reject the closed shop?
§ Mr. Kinnockrose——
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The Leader of the Opposition has had three opportunities to put his case.
§ Mr. KinnockMay I have your indulgence, Mr. Speaker? I am fed up with a Prime Minister who has power trying to dodge it by trying to award obligations to me — dodging all the time. I have no intention of condoning breaks of the law and no intention of being a drill sergeant for divisive and ruinous Tory legislation, either.
§ The Prime MinisterWill the right hon. Gentleman condemn intimidation of employees and companies?
§ Mr. DobsonThe right hon. Lady should do the job for which she is paid.
§ The Prime MinisterWill he wholly and utterly condemn it and therefore uphold their rights to reject the closed shop?
§ Q2. Mr. Gareth Wardellasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 13 December.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. WardellWill the Prime Minister undertake to read last week's report by an anonymous group of Welsh HMIs entitled "Home School Links"? If she considers that this report is fatuous, complacent, lacking in substantiated detail and academic rigour, and that it fails to give any guidance to parents on the crucial issues of glue sniffing, under-age drinking and smoking, will she ensure that in future these HMIs are more suitably and sensibly employed?
§ The Prime MinisterI believe that Her Majesty's inspectorate does a very good job and that its work is almost universally welcome. The Government will be making a statement later on glue sniffing. We are watching the Scottish case carefully.
§ Sir Hugh RossiIs my right hon. Friend aware of the report in today's newspapers that the Government propose to send a British astronaut into space? Will she confirm or deny that?
§ The Prime MinisterI know nothing about such a report. It is not true, but there are certain hon. and right hon. Gentlemen whom I should not minding sending there.
§ Mr. PavittWill the Prime Minister accept my sincerity when I say that I deprecate the events that led to the premature closure of a Brent council meeting last week? At the same time, will she consider those events less emotionally today? Is she aware that I attended that meeting and that there was no "Rentamob"? There were 300 people present, many of whom I have served as Member of Parliament for 24 years, and many of whom came from the local Methodist church, pensioners' associations and others. Will the Prime Minister accept also that it was an offensive break from democratic practices in an area where I canvassed for Mrs. Neil, because I was known and she was not? There have been 1,100 local voters, including Conservatives, who have asked Mrs. Neil to resign. The Prime Minister talked about gagging procedures last week, but the gagging procedures in Brent were no worse than when my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Mr. Wareing) had the payroll vote used against him in gagging procedures here.
§ The Prime MinisterIt is strange that the power was not transferred peaceably from Labour to Tory-Liberal control. It was not. I do not know whether it was "Rentamob", but the reports were of a mob preventing the peaceful transfer.
§ Mr. Andrew MacKayDoes my right hon. Friend agree that, despite Mr. Len Murray's advice, it is gross intimidation of innocent workers for Mr. Colin Barnet, the north-west region general secretary of the TUC, to promise that tomorrow's demonstration will be the largest that Warrington has ever seen?
§ The Prime MinisterI understand that there is to be a demonstration tomorrow, but that it will be away from the place of work. There is a right of peaceful demonstration. If there is a demonstration I trust that it will be peaceful. I am certain that the police will do everything to protect the right of ordinary workers to go about their ordinary business peacefully and without hindrance.
§ Mr. SteelWill the Prime Minister give a general welcome to the report on Northern Ireland published this morning by the European Parliament by Mr. Haagerup? Will she pursue the suggestion that the Government have been considering, namely, a parliamentary forum in which Members of the House, the Northern Ireland Assembly and the Dail will discuss Northern Ireland problems?
§ The Prime MinisterThe right hon. Gentleman will be aware that I take the view that the European Assembly has no business to discuss the internal political affairs of a member state. That is the view we took at the outset and to which we adhere, and to which I believe every state of the European Community must continue to adhere. An Anglo-Irish parliamentary body is a matter for the parliaments concerned and not for the Government.
§ Q3. Mr. Dormandasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 13 December.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. DormandWill the Prime Minister reflect today—it is an appropriate time for her do do so—on the divided society that her Government have created. It is one in which the poor have become poorer, the rich have become richer, employee has been set against employer, and the sick are not recieving the attention that they could reasonably expect from a civilised society. Having done that, will she re-read the words from St. Francis which she uttered to the nation in 1979, and having read them, decide that it is time for her to go?
§ The Prime MinisterIn reply to the hon. Gentleman may I point out that in the latest dispute it is the employees who are backing up the employer, not the other way round? With regard to many other aspects of society, we have over 60 per cent. owner-occupation—opportunities that would never have been given under Labour. With regard to the National Health Service, the amount spent on it each and every year has continued to increase. The Labour party in two years reduced the amount spent on the National Health Service. Further, the pension is at its highest ever level.
§ Mr. Michael McNair-WilsonIn the course of her busy day has my right hon. Friend had a chance to read further reports about the demonstration at RAF Greenham common on Sunday? Is she aware that 1,257 policemen had to be on duty that day from eight forces, that the cost of policing was £250,000, that 30 policemen sustained injuries and that 60 people were arrested? Despite the violence, and the huge cost of policing, which I hope my right hon. Friend will agree belongs perhaps more to a national charge than to a local one, is she aware that we in west Berkshire are determined that Greenham shall fulfil its role as a NATO defence establishment?
§ The Prime MinisterI am grateful to my hon. Friend. I think that the demonstration we witnessed there on television the other day will only have strengthened people's view that we must keep our defences in this country. We will not allow that kind of demonstration, far from peaceable, with many policemen injured, and, at one stage, barbed wire used to scar the side of a horse, to intimidate us. Indeed, it will strengthen us in standing for everything that we believe in, which is the upholding of the rule of law and freedom in this country.
With regard to cost, we have considerable sympathy with Thames Valley police about the extra cost; 60 per cent. is actually borne by the Government. Nevertheless, Thames valley police are having to bear substantial costs for reasons through no fault of theirs. They are doing an excellent job and we shall consider whether there is any extra contribution that we can make.
§ Mr. SoleyIs the Prime Minister aware that many of my constituents have received no post for nearly two weeks, that they will probably receive no Christmas mail at all, let alone any serious and important letters such as pension books, business orders, hospital appointments and so on, largely because the Post Office has refused to accept arbitration from ACAS? Will she use her influence to get the Post Office to go to ACAS, as the trade union has agreed? Or is it the intention of her Government to underplay the role of ACAS so that she can continue her war against the trade unions?
§ The Prime MinisterThere is a recognised procedure for conciliation. It is essential that that procedure is followed and the Government will not intervene.
§ Mr. YeoDoes my right hon. Friend agree that the action by the TUC leadership to discourage the National Graphical Association from proceeding with its strike is not only most welcome but shows a concern for NGA members which the NGA itself has not shown, and a respect for the law? Does she further agree that in this respect the TUC general secretary is setting an example which the Leader of the Opposition would do well to emulate?
§ The Prime MinisterI agree with my hon. Friend. The TUC believes in upholding the law. That is right in a democracy. The law is absolutely indivisible. People cannot choose which parts of it they uphold and which parts they flout. It must all be upheld. I believe the TUC has made that clear in the stand it has taken.
§ Mr. WigleyWill the Prime Minister find time today to study the words of Mr. McNamara on a television programme last Saturday night, when he said that there were no military justifications for cruise missiles, only political ones? In the light of this, will she now reconsider whether cruise missiles are necessary?
§ The Prime MinisterNo. We watched the Soviet Union deploy many, many warheads, some 800 or 900 SS20 warheads. We asked the Soviet Union to take them down. We negotiated with it for nearly four years, asking it to take them down. In the absence of the Soviet Union going to zero option, we must put our own deterrent in place. We have done so and we shall continue with the programme of deploying cruise and Pershing missiles to protect the people of this country.