HC Deb 08 December 1983 vol 50 cc453-5
7. Mr. Dubs

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what discussions he has had with political leaders in Northern Ireland about the future of the Assembly.

16. Mr. Hal Miller

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the working of the Assembly.

Mr. Prior

I have regular discussions with political leaders in Northern Ireland on a wide range of topics, including the Assembly. The Government believe that the Assembly continues to offer a framework within which progress could be made towards a lasting and acceptable political settlement. It is in the interests of all the people of Northern Ireland that constitutional parties should participate in it.

Mr. Dubs

Is the Secretary of State not being rather optimistic about the future of the Assembly? Is it not now time for him to come forward with a new political initiative, given that it is unlikely that the Assembly has much future?

Mr. Prior

If one is not optimistic about something in Northern Ireland, one is not suited to do anything. I believe that the Assembly provides the best way of improving democratic control within Northern Ireland by the people of Northern Ireland. I hope that those who have so far refused to take part in, or who have found some excuse to come out of, the Assembly will have second thoughts. As I said once before, it is easy enough to knock down democratic institutions; it is quite hard work to build them up.

Mr. Miller

Does my right hon. Friend accept that, despite the acts of barbarous terrorism to which he referred, people in Great Britain still expect and prefer a political to a military solution in Northern Ireland and believe that those acts demonstrate the need for political leaders to come together to work out the Province's problems?

Mr. Prior

I endorse what my hon. Friend said. I had hoped that the Assembly would be one means by which, gradually, we could not only get people to work together but bring forward fresh political leaders. One of the tragedies about the death of Mr. Edgar Graham is that he was a young man who was making his reputation in the Northern Ireland Assembly.

Mr. William Ross

Does the Secretary of State appreciate that the future of the Assembly in its present form does not depend on him, and that he has handed a veto to the hon. Member for Foyle (Mr. Hume) and the SDLP on the future of the Assembly?

Mr. Prior

No, Sir. The future of the Assembly depends on all the people of Northern Ireland. It is true that both the Nationalist and Unionist communities have a veto on progress, if that is the way they wish it to be. However, I should have thought that the events of the past few days demonstrated beyond doubt the need for both sides to come together.

Rev. Ian Paisley

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is the purpose of the IRA and the INLA to smash the Assembly, and therefore that it behoves those who were democratically elected to throw their weight behind it? Will he draw the attention of the House to the nine columns in Hansard yesterday, when he answered questions by my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast, East (Mr. Robinson) about the successes of the Assembly?

Mr. Prior

Yes, Sir. I am convinced that the purpose of the IRA, the INLA and other terrorist organisations is to bring about total anarchy in Northern Ireland. We are playing into their hands if we react to that. That is why it is vital that people take part in democratic institutions, stay there and get over some of the problems.

Mr. Stephen Ross

Is the Secretary of State aware that there are those on Opposition Benches who support him totally in his efforts to keep the Assembly afloat and who would much regret its demise? Does he accept that, as far as we are concerned, he should take no initiative other than to make sure that the Assembly keeps afloat?

Mr. Prior

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for what he has said. I do not have so much support that I do not take it from wherever I can get it.

Mr. Hume

Will the Secretary of State admit that few people in Northern Ireland have any faith in the Assembly? Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the two main parties in the Assembly — one of which has just withdrawn—rejected the terms for devolution of power which the Government laid down before the Assembly elections took place, that being the fourth occasion in a decade on which they rejected the terms for the devolution of power which the House had laid down? That being so, does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the Assembly was stillborn?

Mr. Prior

That exemplifies well the problems that I have. One major party rejected the terms for one reason and the other major party rejected them for precisely the opposite reason. In phase one of the Assembly I was trying to get people at least to consider the problems of Northern Ireland and to monitor direct rule, as the hon. Member for Antrim, North (Rev. Ian Paisley) said. The Civil Service has had to respond to the wishes of the Assembly in a way that it has not had to do for 10 years. That is a good thing for the people of Northern Ireland.

Mr. Peter Lloyd

As it is clear that legislative devolution is a considerable way off, does my right hon. Friend agree that it would be sensible to consider the way in which legislation affecting Northern Ireland is examined and approved by the House?

Mr. Prior

Any changes to the way in which legislation is brought to and approved by the House would create a fresh series of problems. My hon. Friend and the House should not kid themselves that there is an easy answer simply through integration.

Mr. Archer

Does the Secretary of State accept that, whatever our reservations about the Assembly, the Opposition believe that it would be a tragedy if the departure of any group from the Assembly were thought to have been brought about by an act of terrorism, as that would encourage the belief that any political intitiative could be destroyed by the bomb and the gun?

Mr. Prior

I am grateful to the right hon. and learned Gentleman for what he has said. We would be playing into the hands of the terrorists if, as a result of their actions, the Assembly failed.