HC Deb 06 December 1983 vol 50 cc145-7
4. Mr. Gareth Wardell

asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will take steps to introduce an integrated training scheme for all 16 to 19-year-olds.

The Minister of State, Department of Employment (Mr. Peter Morrison)

The youth training scheme is a major step forward in training the country's future work force. We share the general view of employers and others concerned with the scheme that more experience is needed of its operation before a proper assessment can be made of the need for major changes in coverage.

Mr. Wardell

In view of the memorandum submitted to the NEDC by the chairman of the Manpower Services Commission on 21 October stating the need for a sustained effort to develop closer links between the YTS and colleges of further education, and, as many such colleges are threatened with closure, what liaison does the Minister have with the Secretary of State for Education and Science to ensure that education and training are adequately linked and catered for?

Mr. Morrison

I assure the hon. Gentleman that there is close co-operation between me and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science. Colleges of further education supply much of the further training provided under the youth training scheme. The hon. Gentleman will recall that the technical and vocational education initiative links the two closely.

Mr. Couchman

Will my hon. Friend enter into negotiations with employers and trade unions to see whether they will accept that the YTS should become an alternative to the old time-serving apprenticeships and replace them?

Mr. Morrison

As my hon. Friend will appreciate, one objective of the new training initiative is that old-fashioned apprenticeships should be changed and we should aim for standards instead of time served. The youth training scheme fits closely into that proposal.

Mr. Rowe

Is my hon. Friend aware that in my constituency the link between the youth training scheme and the colleges has been widely welcomed and is being imaginatively used, and that the colleges want an assurance that the scheme will not be tinkered with until they have had a chance to make it work?

Mr. Morrison

I am aware that in Kent, as in many other counties, there is close co-operation between the local education authority and the Manpower Services Commission. I agree with him that we should not move hastily, because we wish to learn from the experience of how the scheme is operating. It is too early to do so after only two or three months.

Mr. Hardy

Does the Minister accept that in many parts of Britain the number of youngsters on the YTS scheme greatly exceeds the number of those in the same age group who have entered normal employment? Therefore, will he ensure that there is urgent consideration of what will happen next autumn?

Mr. Morrison

As the hon. Gentleman will appreciate, in some parts of Britain the numbers are below the profile, which was introduced because we expected that fewer people would obtain jobs. We must make different assessments for each part of Britain, but it seems that more youngsters are finding jobs than we originally anticipated.

Mr. Campbell-Savours

If 17-year-olds are too old for the youth training scheme and too young for the community programme, what should 17-year-olds do in an area of unemployment such as west Cumbria?

Mr. Morrison

The hon. Gentleman will know that the scheme is available to unemployed 17-year-olds. The Manpower Services Commission and the Youth Training Board may propose that the scheme should include 17-year-old employed school leavers, and they must reach a decision on this at their December meeting.

Mr. Sheerman

Does the Minister accept that although the YTS is seen by many Opposition Members as an imperfect but useful stop-gap, the Government should consider urgently what will happen by next June or next autumn? Does he accept that plans should now be laid for proper training for all 16 to 19-year-olds?

Mr. Morrison

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for saying that this is a useful scheme. I agree with him that uncertainty must be removed as soon as possible.

Mr. John Smith

He said that it was a stop-gap.

Mr. Morrison

The right hon. and learned Member for Monklands, East (Mr. Smith) said that the hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr. Sheerman) used the words "stopgap". He also used the word "useful", and I am grateful for his compliments about the scheme. I agree with him that uncertainty is not healthy for the future of the scheme, and the Government will make a decision as soon as possible.