HC Deb 19 April 1983 vol 41 cc156-7
16. Mr. Foulkes

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services when he expects to be able to announce the savings he expects in the part-year 1983–84 as a result of the changeover to the historic system of measuring inflation for the purpose of uprating benefits.

Mr. Newton

I do not anticipate there will be any such savings.

Mr. Foulkes

That is unbelievable. Does the Minister seriously believe that he can hide the clawback by the deception of changing the system? Is he aware that the Chief Secretary to the Treasury answered my hon. Friend the Member for St. Pancras, North (Mr. Stallard) on 11 April by saying that the clawback from pensioners would be £210 million? When will the Government allow the pensioners a real increase in their standard of living, instead of making them eke out a living on the poverty line?

Mr. Newton

There is no clawback—

Mr. Foulkes

There is. It is a deception.

Mr. Newton

There is no adjustment. Pensioners keep the pension rate that they have been paid since last November and they will receive a further increase next November based on price rises between last May and this May. On any likely assumption, the pensioners will be a lot better off when this Parliament ends than when it began.

Mr. Bill Walker

Does my hon. Friend agree that it ill becomes the Labour party — which changed the system to make savings and failed to pay the pensioners their Christmas bonus—to make such comments?

Mr. Newton

I have consistently sought not to dwell too much on the embarrassment on the Labour Benches. It remains the fact, however, that in 1976 they changed the system to save what would now be £1 billion at the expense of the pensioners.

Mr. John

Does the Minister agree that if inflation is running at 6 per cent. next November, as opposed to an anticipated 4 per cent. in May, the Government will ensure that nobody loses as a result of this changeover?

Mr. Newton

The Government had made it clear that they intended to proceed originally on the basis of forecast with adjustment. The change to a historic method means that pensioners will have a larger uprating than they would otherwise have had.