Local Authority Fares

HC Deb 27 October 1982 vol 29 cc1034-6

28. Mr. Winnick

asked the Secretary of State for Transport if he will give details of his proposals for legislative changes over public transport fares charged by local authorities.

Mr. Eyre

The reply that I have carefully prepared says that I would refer the hon. Member to the reply that my right hon. Friend gave earlier today to my hon. Friend the Member for Bebington and Ellesmere Port (Mr. Porter). However, as my hon. Friend was not present to receive that reply, let me say that the purpose of the legislation is to clarify the law on subsidy to take account of the balance of interests between passengers and ratepayers and also of national resources which are available for subsidy, and that it will be to provide a stable framework within which we can obtain better use of resources. All those aims will be of benefit to passengers and to those who are involved in transport operations.

Mr. Winnick

I am sure that that reply has told us a lot. Is the Minister aware that the idea of cheap bus fares is extremely popular, and rightly so, and that there is no reason at all why local authorities in the West Midlands and in the GLC area should be prevented from operating a cheap bus fare policy? That makes sense from every point of view. Why do not the Government allow local authorities to do what they wish?

Mr. Eyre

The hon. Gentleman will appreciate—and I agree with him—that reasonable subsidies are necessary for public passenger transport. However, a system that puts excessive burdens on ratepayers does much social harm and damages businesses that could provide employment. Furthermore, bearing in mind the total national circumstances, the Government must take a view on the amount of resources that are involved, because, as the hon. Gentleman will appreciate, there are other strong claims on those resources in connection with education, social welfare, and services for the elderly. All those factors need to be taken into account in allocating the total resources for those purposes.

Mr. Teddy Taylor

Before the Minister does that, will he sort out the anomaly created by the previous cheap fares policy, which resulted in London Transport declining to give refunds to British Rail and to many of my Southend constituents buying annual season tickets and being deprived of a refund by London Transport on the basis that the House of Lords ruled that it was illegal to charge cheap fares?

Mr. Eyre

I can only say that I regret that unfairness which stemmed from the GLC's original illegal action and which was disturbing to those at the receiving end.

Mr. Anderson

How effective is Government monitoring of the national effect of cutbacks in local government expenditure on local bus services? Are not the Government getting the message that there is a substantial loss of jobs, a shrinkage of routes and a much worse service to the local passenger?

Mr. Eyre

The hon. Gentleman should await the legislation. We try to take reasonable account of the historic position of those local authorities that provide services to develop a system that will enable the better use of resources and, therefore, the provision of better services where they are needed. The aim must be to avoid the waste of resources, since that cannot contribute to the economic strength of the nation.

Several Hon. Members rose

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Mr. Speaker

Order. I must be guided by the clock.