Clause 14 (Hansard, 21 October 1982)

§ Mr. Mayhew
I beg to move, That this House doth disagree with the Lords in the said amendment.

§ Mr. Deputy Speaker
With this it will be convenient to take Lords amendment No. 23, the Minister's motion to disagree and Lords amendment No. 24.

§ Mr. Mayhew
The amendments that the Government have tabled to clause 15 and schedules 13 and 15 give effect to the undertaking that my noble Friend gave on Third Reading in the other place that the Government would consider whether provision could be made in the Bill to give effect to the proposition that, when a young offender is released on parole, his parole licence should run only to his remission date, at the same time achieving parity between the period of supervision under licence of those released on parole and the period of supervision of those released in the ordinary way with remission for good conduct. I am glad to say that satisfactory amendments have been prepared.
The House will recall the consideration that was given to this matter in Committee. The Government were anxious to ensure that those released on parole licence should not be liable to a lesser period of supervision than those released in the ordinary way. On Third Reading of the Bill in another place, the Government accepted an amendment moved by the noble Lord Mishcon, which, 532 although technically defective, would have met the Government's earlier objections by providing that a young offender released on parole licence should, after his remission date when his parole licence expired, be liable to supervision thereafter as if he had been released in the normal way.
The Government's amendment now seeks to leave out Clause 14, which makes provision for the release on licence of young offenders, and substantially to recast clause 15, bringing into that clause, which dealt previously only with those released in the normal way, the provisions dealing with those released on parole. In the revised clause 15, those young offenders, who are neither granted remission nor released under parole, will have, under clause 15(3A), three months' supervision. Those released with remission will, under clause 15(3B) be supervised until the end of the sentence, with a minimum of three months supervision. Those released on parole will, under clause 15(3C) be supervised after their parole licence expires until the end of their sentence. There will be a maximum of 12 months supervision. Those provisions are subject to the period of supervision ending at the twenty-second birthday, if that intervenes before the supervision period is concluded. A short custodial sentence for breach of supervision will not attract a further period of supervision.
I realise that all that sounds rather Byzantine. In fact, it is quite clear. I have worked out a way of making it much clearer, but I think that I might be wrong. Therefore, I shall not do so unless pressed.
The Government have gone a considerable way in a short time to meet the views expressed by the Opposition in the other place, and by the National Association of Probation Officers, and I commend the Government's amendments and the consequential disagreement to Lords amendment No. 23 to the House.

§ Dr. Summerskill
Will the hon. and learned Gentleman clarify one point? Am I right in thinking that a young person serving a 24-month sentence, released on parole after 12 months, will then be on parole for four months and on ordinary supervision for a further eight months? Will that be the consequence of what he has said?

§ Mr. Mayhew
It is generally unwise to answer "Yes", or even "No", to such a question. I am prepared, subject to revision, to answer "Yes". If a young offender is paroled, the parole licence will run to remission date and then expire. We all know that remission for good conduct means that an offender does not serve the last third of his sentence, but his supervision as a young offender runs to the end of the sentence, with a maximum of 12 months supervision, or until his twenty-second birthday, if that falls earlier. That must be put into the equation.
The hon. Lady did not say when the chap would be 22. If no remission or parole is applicable, there is supervision for three months. If there is remission, the supervision will run until the end of the sentence, with a minimum of three months supervision. I hope that is clear.