Council of Ministers (Hansard, 20 October 1982)

§ 33. Mr. Spearing
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what Council meetings of the European Economic Community have taken place since 1 September; and if he will make a statement concerning their conclusions.

§ 34. Mr. Skinner
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what meetings there have been of the Council of Ministers since the beginning of the Summer Recess; and what principal conclusions were reached.

§ 35. Dr. J. Dickson Mabon
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many meetings of the Council of Ministers have taken place since the end of July ; and what decisions were taken.

§ Mr. Hurd
Since the Summer Recess there have been four Council meetings, two in September and two so far this month. Of those, two were Agriculture Councils, one a Fisheries Council and one a Foreign Affairs Council. My right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food will shortly—I think, today—be arranging for the House to be informed of what happened at the Agriculture and Fisheries Councils. The Foreign Affairs Council dealt mainly with our budget refunds for 1982, Portuguese accession, Community relations with the United States and, in political co-operation, developments in the Middle East. I am arranging for a report to be published in the Official Report.

§ Mr. Spearing
Is the Minister really satisfied with this manner of reporting to the House? Would it not be better, when the House is sitting, for Ministers to make periodic and regular oral reports to the House? Will he also confirm what the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs has stated—that we are no longer holding the EEC to the 1 per cent. VAT limit?

§ Mr. Hurd
It is for the House to say whether it is satisfied with the reports. My colleagues and I have tried to give the House the fullest and earliest information about meetings. The hon. Gentleman misquotes my right hon. Friend. The own resources of the Community are not exhausted and are not likely to be exhausted in the foreseeable future. This is, therefore, a hypothetical situation. If people wish to engage in a review of this matter together with related subjects we are willing to enter into such a review, but not on any precondition that own resoureces would be increased.

§ Mr. Skinner
Will the Minister say whether the Common Market Ten, during the course of recent meetings, have made a statement or passed an appropriate resolution to the effect that they wish to see the release of the Moroka three, the three black South Africans who, because they committed themselves to fight apartheid, are now awaiting execution by the South African regime'' If, like the Nordic countries, the Common Market Ten did pass a resolution calling upon the South African Government to stop the execution of these three people, will he now, as one of the Ten, and on behalf of the Government, urge the South African Government to stop the executions?

§ Mr. Hurd
So far as I can recall, no specific resolution has been passed, but the South African Government are in no doubt about our general view on the nature of the regime and the practices that occur under it.

§ Dr. Mabon
In view of the importance of these meetings in sustaining employment, especially the steel decision and the Davignon plan, may we take it that, following the decision made today, I understand, by the German Government in Bonn to stand solidly with their European partners against American measures of retaliation that may have been instituted, the Council of Ministers will maintain the position, even though American private steel interests may object to their Government's activities?

§ Mr. Hurd
If the German decision is confirmed, we hope that this will enable the Community to inform the United States of the situation in time for the necessary procedures to be adopted to relax the measures that it has announced. The urgency was precisely dictated by the timing of American legislation.

§ Sir Anthony Meyer
Will my right hon. Friend discourage speculation that Her Majesty's Government., in meeting difficulties over the budget, might be prepared to withhold the British contribution? Is it not clear from the tenor of all previous questions that this country stands to gain more than any other from a proper application and enforcement of the rules of the Community?

§ Mr. Hurd
We are not talking at the present time about withholding. We are about to enter a new phase of negotiation. Our partners should be in no doubt about the key nature of this problem, which has not been solved and which will not go away until there is a permanent and satisfactory solution.

§ Mr. Jay
Has a clear undertaking been given by our United Nations partners to support the British attitude in the UN over the Falklands resolution?

§ Mr. Hurd
My right hon. Friend has just answered a question on that point. Discussions are clearly continuing.

§ Sir Nicholas Bonsor
Has the Council of Ministers had the opportunity to reflect upon the petty nature of the constant stream of directives and resolutions that the Commission processes? If not, may I ask my right hon. Friend to make sure that, in the near future, the Council of Ministers takes steps to make certain that this flood of legislation ceases and that the Commission turns its mind to more important matters?

§ Mr. Hurd
I imagine that my hon. Friend would exempt those measures pressed for by British industry in its wish to see non-tariff barriers to trade reduced across 363 the Community. We are pressing hard for Community measures on insurance, on air fares, on banking and on transport, because we think that measures of this kind could enable British firms and businesses—it is certainly their view—to overcome remaining obstacles and do better in the Community.

§ Mr. Dalyell
What explanation do French Ministers give for the flow of ever-more sophisticated weaponry from Aerospatiale Dassault to Argentina? Is this not more than an academic question in view of the probing of the Phantoms by Mirages?

§ Mr. Hurd
During the Falklands war the French Government co-operated effectively with us in this area, which the hon. Gentleman has consistently probed—

§ Mr. Dalyell
No, they did not.

§ Mr. Hurd
Since then, they have—we regretted the timing—relaxed the arms embargo but have assured us that they will exercise their policy with prudence and restraint. Obviously, we watch the situation and keep in touch with them.

§ Mr. Moate
I wish to revert to the answer given earlier by my right hon. Friend on resources. Is it not the case that we have laid down one precondition—that there should not in any circumstances be any increase in the 1 per cent. level of VAT contribution to the EEC budget? Will my right hon. Friend confirm that this decision remains absolute and that the Government will stand by it regardless?

§ Mr. Hurd
We see no case for enlarging the limit of own resources. In addition to what we have already said, we have said that any long-term review of the Community's financial resources must take account of the clear need—this must be embedded in it—for a solution to the problem of burden-sharing and the British budget contribution.

Mr. loan Evans
Has there recently been a decision about the sale of cheap butter to the Soviet Union, or any American objections to that sale, and if so, how do the Americans explain why they can sell wheat to the Soviet Union to make bread when we cannot sell butter?

§ Mr. Hurd
There have been no such sales of subsidised Community butter to Russia since 1980. We oppose, and shall continue to oppose, such sales.
Following is the report: The Foreign Affairs Council met on 20 and 21 September, when there were four main subjects for consideration. There was 364 a long discussion on the implementation of the agreement of 25 May on the United Kingdom's budget refunds for 1982 but Ministers were not able to reach agreement on how these were to be financed. This matter will be discussed again at the October Foreign Affairs Council, which is to be held next week. At a ministerial level conference with the Portuguese in the margins of the Council agreement was reached on the Customs union chapter, including a regime to govern access of Portuguese textiles to the Community before and after accession. Agreement was also reached, with a few minor exceptions, on the external relations, taxation and European Coal and Steel Community chapters. Discussions of Community relations with the United States naturally centred on the disputes over steel and the Siberian pipeline. On steel, the Community confirmed its willingness to implement the arrangements negotiated by the Commission with the United States Administration on 6 August, and expressed regret that no corresponding confirmation had so far been forthcoming from the United States side. It was agreed that contacts should continue with a view to securing a settlement as quickly as possible. The Council deplored the present dispute arising out of the American measures affecting the Siberian gas pipeline. Ministers expressed the wish to see relations with the United States in this area return to normal and noted both that member States were ready to continue contacts with the United States Administration and that the Community should be involved in due course where Community competence applied. Ministers of the Ten, meeting in political co-operation, discussed the situation in the Middle East. They issued a statement strongly condemning the massacre of Palestinian civilians in Beirut and indicating their willingness to support, up to the limit of their capabilities, additional steps to ensure the safety of the civilian population. A copy of the statement has been placed in the Library of the House. They renewed their offer to assist in the relief and reconstruction of Lebanon. They repeated their belief that the Middle East could enjoy peace and stability only through a comprehensive settlement to be concluded with the participation of all parties, including the PLO. They welcomed the new American initiative contained in President Reagan's speech on 1 September and underlined the importance of the statement adopted by Arab Heads of State and Government at Fez on 9 September. Foreign Ministers of the Ten also discussed ways of improving relations with the countries of Latin America. In addition to those main issues the Council had further discussions on the Commission's proposal for aid to Central America but came to no conclusions. The United Kingdom drew attention to the serious market conditions for steel in the Community and pressed the need for measures to protect the market from undue disruption in the remainder of 1982. We urged that at the October Council the Commission should put forward proposals for a negotiating mandate for further restraint arrangements with the major third country suppliers for 1983.

§ Mr. Dalyell
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply about the Phantom Mirage issue, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.