§ Ql. Mr. Altonasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 19 October.
§ The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, including one with the Chief of the Defence Staff. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today. This evening I shall be having talks with the Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany.
§ Mr. AltonWill the right hon. Lady tell the House how much disruption there must be within the National Health Service, how many patients must suffer and what conditions must prevail before the Government send the NHS dispute to arbitration? Will she take this opportunity to dissociate herself from the remarks of some of her right hon. and hon. Friends, to the effect that they would welcome the dismantling of the Welfare State?
§ The Prime MinisterI condemn any suffering to the elderly, the sick or children in the NHS. There need be none, and there should be none. It comes about by the decision of a few ill-motivated people in some of the unions. I commend the work of many others in the unions who are carrying out, not only their own work, but that of many others.
The offers that have been made to the NHS workers are reasonable. There is £1.1 billion on the table, and there is hope that talks will be resumed to end the dispute. The Government have an excellent record over the Welfare State, and an especially good one in relation to the NHS.
§ Mr. AncramHas my right hon. Friend yet had time today to appreciate that tomorrow's industrial action by the Post Office Engineering Union will not be so much a willing and spontaneous demonstration as one created by threats of expulsion from the union and the loss of their jobs against members who refuse to take part? Will she take this opportunity roundly to condemn such a crude form of intimidation and congratulate those who stand up against it?
The Prime MinsterWe roundly condemn any intimidation and also any action by those who threaten that unless people obey their unions they will lose their jobs. That is not the language of a free country.
§ Mr. FootWill the Prime Minister take this first opportunity since the Summer Recess to tell the House and the country when she expects the terrible unemployment figures to begin to fall? I know that she does not like to make such prophesies about these matters, but as she has a new Treasury forecast, can she give us some idea of what it says?
§ The Prime MinisterThe only Treasury forecast due to be published is that which comes out in the autumn. It does not give forecasts of the numbers of those expected to be unemployed. Those have not been given, neither are they customarily given, and neither did the Opposition given them when in office. There is a report on the national insurance fund, in which assumptions must be made. That is usually published at about this time of year.
The best way to reduce unemployment is, as the CBI said, to be far more competitive so that we have a larger share of the existing home market and also a larger share of the existing export market.
§ Mr. FootHave not the Government been forced to make fresh forecasts since the Budget about the prospects for economic growth? Now that the prospects this year are down to 0.5 per cent. and between 1 and 1½ per cent. next year, does that not mean a further appalling increase in unemployment? Why will the right hon. Lady not face these facts and change the policies that have caused them?
§ The Prime MinisterBecause rhetoric does not change facts or produce jobs. If it did, unemployment would not have doubled under the right hon. Gentleman. Forecasts the world over about growth in the coming year have been revised downwards. The right hon. Gentleman will be aware of the difficult problems that have hit Europe, particularly Germany. The way to increase jobs is not through excuses or rhetoric Rather, as the CBI said:
There can be no solution to unemployment without greater competitiveness, for which the major responsibility must rest with business".As Mr. Sid Weighell said at the Trade Union Congress on 18 September,as far as the four million unemployed are concerned you are responsible for them being there".
§ Mr. FootDoes the right hon. Lady now confirm that there have been fresh forecasts since the Budget, which will mean extra unemployment?
§ The Prime MinisterThe right hon. Gentleman will have seen—[HON MEMBERS: "Answer the question"]. I shall answer the question accurately in my own way. The right hon. Gentleman will have seen many forecasts of growth for the coming year which are less than anticipated at the time of the Budget. Britain's unemployment position will depend upon how big a share of the home and export markets we get. As the right hon. Gentleman will have heard me say on previous occasions, had we retained the share of the home and export markets that we had 12 years ago, there would now be 1½ million more jobs in Britain. That means that we must compete.
§ Q2. Mr. Robert Atkinsasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 19 October.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave a few moments ago.
§ Mr. AtkinsWhile in no sense seeking to be critical of the rights of the individual to free speech on any issue, may I ask my right hon. Friend whether she agrees that it is a sad day for the Church of England when a group of supposedly eminent—but certainly unrepresentative—clerics seek to undermine the defence of the United Kingdom in so far as they are prepared to shelter under the United States nuclear umbrella—[Interruption.]—but are not prepared to allow such weapons on United Kingdom soil? Does that not smack of hypocrisy?
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I have risen to my feet to ensure that the hon. Gentleman is heard. There is a running commentary from some hon. Members whenever something is said that they do not like. That is not in order in this place. Everyone is allowed to express his opinion. Mr. Robert Atkins.
§ Mr. AtkinsWould you like me to say it all again, Mr. Speaker?
§ Mr. SpeakerNo, thank you.
§ The Prime MinisterI agree with my hon. Friend that nuclear weapons are an essential part of Britain's security. If there were any suggestion of unilateral disarmament, it would threaten the peace and security that we have enjoyed for 37 years. I have read of the report to which my hon. Friend has referred. I agree with him that people have total freedom of speech. However, this is not an official report of the Church of England and I understand that it will not come before the General Synod until next year.
§ Mr. Roy JenkinsThe Prime Minister referred earlier to assumptions which, at about this time of year, are issued for the purposes of the national insurance fund. Do they show unemployment falling, rising or remaining the same?
§ The Prime MinisterThe right hon. Gentleman must await the report of the Government Actuary, which will be published at the appropriate time.
§ Mr. Tom ClarkeIs not the Prime Minister concerned about the future of the British steel industry? Is she aware that in Airdrie, in my constituency, where male unemployment is 37 per cent., additional redundancies were announced last week at the Imperial plant? Will she give some indication that the Government have a shred of confidence in the future of the steel industry, particularly in Scotland?
§ The Prime MinisterAs the hon. Gentleman will be aware, some critical decisions are being made this week in Europe, where we are trying to agree to limit our exports to the United States to avoid countervailing duties of about 20 per cent., which would have extremely damaging effects on our own steel industry. It is hoped that Germany will agree with the rest of Europe that we should so limit our exports, but it is a critical week. Improved steel sales are, of course, necessary for improved steel production. I can only stress that it would help very much if people purchased more British cars rather than foreign cars. In doing so they would be buying not only British cars but British steel and British components. It goes without saying that the standard of those cars must be the equal of those of any other country.
§ Mr. NeedhamWill my right hon. Friend refer to the decision of the right hon. Member for Roxburgh, Selkirk and Peebles (Mr. Steel) not to attend last week's parade organised by the City of London? Does she agree that that cast a cloud over the achievement of our Service men, many of whom come from my constituency, where the right hon. Gentleman claims that he will have a walkover at the next general election?
§ The Prime MinisterNothing can cloud the achievement of our Service men. It was magnificent.
§ Mr. Guy BarnettHow many factories has the right hon. Lady visited since she became Prime Minister and how many of those factories have subsequently gone bankrupt or are in receivership?
§ The Prime MinisterI have visited many factories, some of which are flourishing and some of which are not. That is perfectly evident. There is a deep world recession and how we weather it will depend upon whether we stay competitive, not upon the rhetoric of Opposition Members. The thing that harms our industry most is strikes.
§ Q3. Mr. Jesselasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 19 October.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. JesselAs the drop in interest rates, which is linked with the drop in inflation, means that anyone with a new £20,000 mortgage is already saving £8 a week net of tax and anyone with a new £15,000 mortgage is saving £6 net of tax, is my right hon. Friend aware that many people buying houses and flats are tremendously pleased and hope that she will remain implacable in her determination to see that it continues?
§ The Prime MinisterI thank my hon. Friend. The Government can help to bring unemployment down by continuing to bring inflation down, and mortgage rates will follow. They can continue to bring interest rates down. As my hon. Friend knows, we have also reduced the national insurance surcharge, which was introduced by the Labour Party, and taken off some hire purchase controls. That will inject into the economy the possibility of more purchasing power. How many more jobs result from that purchasing power will depend on how far we buy British goods and how far it goes into increased output as opposed to imports.
§ Mr. DormandWill the Prime Minister consult her Housing Ministers about the Association of District Councils all-party meeting held this morning to discuss the miserable offer made by the Government for repairs in new towns? Is she aware that hon. Members on the Conservative Benches expressed deep concern this morning at the scandalous offer of £8 million to cope with an estimated cost of £90 million? Does she not agree that this is a cost for the Exchequer and not for local ratepayers and rent payers, especially in hard-hit areas such as the North-East?
§ The Prime MinisterWith regard to the offer on new towns, the hon. Gentleman must question my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment. May I point out that, with regard to general housing policy, there have already been 370,000 council houses or new town houses sold during the lifetime of the this Government? 227 That is an excellent opportunity. With regard to building and new building, may I point out that the capital allocations to local authorities are underspent?