§ 15. Mr. Wigleyasked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make a statement on the level of future expenditure on the National Health Service in Wales.
§ Mr. Nicholas EdwardsThe Government's plans for future levels of expenditure on the National Health Service in Wales are published in the annual public expenditure White Paper. The most recent such White Paper is Cmnd.8494.
§ Mr. WigleyIs the Secretary of State not aware that the people of Wales are outraged and dismayed by the reports of the £56 million cuts in provision for health in the area, which are outlined on page 8 of the Welsh Office paper "Health Service Resources in Wales 1983–84", a copy of which I have in my hands? Will he now make clear the status of the document and give an absolute assurance that there will be no cuts under the headings outlined in the document and that the Welsh Office will be seeking an increase in health services in Wales?
§ Mr. EdwardsThe hon. Gentleman may be outraged by the reports, because there have been some grossly misleading reports, including—I am sorry to say—one 12 from the BBC. However, the first sentence of that paper shows that no decisions have been taken about next year's expenditure on the Health Service in Wales. When I met the health authorities last week I made it absolutely clear that the document would enable us to discuss the future planning of finance in the Health Service. We did not discuss numbers, because the Government have not spelt out any numbers for what will be available.
§ Mr. AbseWhy is the Secretary of State being so unexpectedly and uncharacteristically coy and diffident about the paper, which he describes as a hypothesis, when he is clearly seeking to assuage the Prime Minister's well-known yearning to dismantle the NHS completely? Is he aware that if that option—as he describes it—is applied to Gwent, it will mean the end of the redevelopment of the Royal Gwent hospital, the end of any possibility of the promised hospital for the young chronically sick, the end of any possibility of a district hospital in Panteg or Pontllanfraith, and that all the capital expenditure schemes will be seriously arrested? Why does not the right hon. Gentleman come clean instead of trying to hide behind this curious notion of a hypothesis?
§ Mr. EdwardsWe have had the usual stream of hysterical nonsense from the hon. Gentleman, but I repeat that no decisions have been taken about the amount of money to be made available next year. I made that fact abundantly clear to the health authorities. Expenditure on the Health Service is running at record levels, the number of those employed in the NHS in Wales has increased by about one-third compared with a decade ago and expenditure has increased by more than 5 per cent. in real terms under this Government. The facts speak for themselves.
§ Sir Anthony MeyerIs it not clear that the bad faith of much of the comment on this matter is matched only by the hypocrisy of the Labour Party, which would have us believe that there are infinite and infinitely expanding resources available to finance the Health Service? Is it not necessary, if any planning is to be undertaken, that at least the hypothesis of a fixed amount available has to be taken into consideration?
§ Mr. EdwardsIt is an interesting comment on the financial responsibility of Labour Members that they think that it is prudent to plan for the future on the assumption that there will always be unlimited resources available, and do not at least start planning on the assumption that resources may be rather less generously available than they have been over the past decade. It is because they were irresponsible in their financial planning that we have many of our difficulties today.
§ Mr. WigleyOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of that unsatisfactory answer and the accusations made, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.