HC Deb 18 October 1982 vol 29 cc9-10
13. Mr. Coleman

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will estimate the number of redundancies that will arise in local government in Wales, arising from his statement on local authority expenditure in Wales, made in the House on 28 July.

Mr. Wyn Roberts

No. Local authorities are responsible for determining staff levels. The £1,205 million current expenditure provision, that my right hon. Friend announced in July is 7 per cent. more than this year's provision. Provided pay settlements are kept to very low single figures authorities should, in general, be able to reduce staff through normal wastage.

Mr. Coleman

Does the hon. Gentleman not agree that his right hon. Friend's announcement before the Summer Recess amounts to a cut of about £60 million in rate support grant? Will not such a cut lead not only to reductions in the number of those employed in local government but to cuts in essential services on which the quality of life depends?

Mr. Roberts

I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman, and the points that he has made have been dealt with by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State. Since the Conservative Party came into office, local authorities in Wales have reduced their manpower by about 5 per cent. without a general recourse to redundancies. We do not see why they should have recourse to redundancies in the coming year. Local authorities are responsible for deciding their priorities for services. The proposed level of local authority current expenditure for next year implies the same levels of service as in the mid-1970s.

Mr. loan Evans

Does the Minister recall that in the depression of the 1930s, when unemployment was less than it is now in Wales, the Government put additional resources at the disposal of local authorities to enable them to provide schemes to employ unemployed building workers? Why do not the Government have such an imaginative scheme now, when there is such mass unemployment?

Mr. Roberts

We have an extensive capital programme. The plans for current expenditure have been increased by £19 million more than was included in last year's public expenditure White Paper. In addition, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State is increasing capital provision next year by about £17 million.

Mr. Skinner

Where is the business sense in telling town hall workers that, as a result of the Government's cut in the rate support grant, they will no longer get their pay packets from the town hall, but will have to go down the road to the Department of Employment and the DHSS to pick up Government money, without having contributed to the productive side of the economy? What is the sense or morality in that?

Mr. Roberts

The hon. Gentleman is wrong as far as Wales is concerned. The latest Manpower Watch returns show that authorities have started to increase their staff. That trend must be reversed if expenditure is to be kept to the Government's target.