APPLICATIONS BY MENTAL WELFARE OFFICERS (Hansard, 18 October 1982)

§ Mr. Geoffrey Finsberg
I beg to move amendment No. 15 in page 11, line 17 after 'patient', insert 'in a suitable manner'.
The amendment meets an undertaking given to my hon. Friend the Member for Abingdon (Mr. Benyon) to ensure that the Bill covers the special needs of deaf people. The amendment will require the mental welfare officer to use a suitable manner when interviewing a patient with a view to making an application for admission. This might mean that the interview should be conducted through an interpreter using sign language. My hon. .Friend was worried. We shall be making clear our intentions in guidance notes which will also remind staff to make special arrangements. 1 understand that the British Deaf Association is pleased with the amendment.

§ Mr. Mike Thomas
Is this really necessary? I am all for the objectives of the hon. Member for Abingdon (Mr. Benyon) and for the Minister meeting them, but it is a peculiar phrase to include in a Bill. What is the substance of "in a suitable manner" and what force does it have? Surely the sensible course would have been to give an undertaking that appropriate guidance would be given to those doing the job. The Minister for Health is an eminent lawyer and knows more than I about such matters, but I cannot believe that the amendment has any substance. It seems very peculiar.

§ Mr. Terry Davis
I, too, have reservations about the wording of the amendment. If the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne, East (Mr. Thomas) looks at the Committee proceedings he will see that the words "in a suitable manner" are not those suggested in Committee.
The hon. Member for Abingdon (Mr. Benyon) tabled two amendments to which I and a number of other hon. Members added our names. The hon. Gentleman made it clear that he was referring to deaf people, and he referred to methods as appropriate to individual patients". He suggested that the mental welfare officer should, as far as practicable, employ oral, written or other methods, as appropriate to individual patients.
Deaf people are an important group, but special arrangements may also need to be made for some ethnic minorities. It is possible that there will be patients who do not speak English, and they will have to be communicated 146 with in a different language. It will be essential for the language of the ethnic minority to be used by those communicating with such patients, and I am not sure that "in a suitable manner" would cover that group. It was our intention in Committee that those people, as well as the deaf, should be covered. I should be grateful for an assurance from the Minister that ethnic minorities' languages will be used when necessary.

§ Mr. Geoffrey Finsberg
My hon. Friend the Member for Abingdon (Mr. Benyon) moved his amendment after discussions with the British Deaf Association. The association has expressed itself content with our proposal, and I suggest to the House that the association is the expert in this matter. It seemed to us satisfactory that our proposed form of wording should be used. We shall be clarifying the situation, if it is thought necessary, in the guidance notes, which are becoming somewhat voluminous and which Ministers have said firmly they will check to make sure that they are in sensible and practical form.
I can see no reason why the important point that the hon. Member for Birmingham, Stechford (Mr. Davis) has raised about ethnic minorities should not be covered. I believe that "in a suitable manner" will cover that point.

§ Mr. Mike Thomas
I do not understand the legal meaning of "manner". The British Deaf Association is not the expert on that; presumably lawyers are the experts. "Manner" could be taken to mean politeness or impoliteness. Is the legal meaning what we mean?

§ Mr. Finsberg
My hon. and learned Friend the Minister of State, Home Office, has given the answer. The answer is "Yes''. It is interpreted widely. I am not a lawyer, but if any difficulty arises I shall write to the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne, East (Mr. Thomas). However, I have no doubt that any sensible person will know exactly what is meant.