HC Deb 19 May 1982 vol 24 cc331-3
1. Mr. Joseph Dean

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what approaches he has received from local authorities for financial assistance for remedial treatment or the replacement of houses and flats built by industrial and semi-industrialised systems; and if he will make a statement.

The Under-Secretary of State for the Environment (Sir George Young)

Local authorities, in making bids for their HIP allocation, have included, along with other special local needs, provision for the remedial treatment or replacement of houses and flats built by industrialised and semi-industrialised systems. I have, in addition, received a number of ad hoc requests for special financial assistance.

The need for capital expenditure on repair or replacement is taken into account in determining HIP allocations. In addition, the new subsidy system introduced last year brings within its scope the cost of capitalised repairs and the cost of improvements to dwellings built within the last 30 years, as well as costs of redevelopment.

Mr. Dean

I thank the Under-Secretary of State for his reply and for the letter that he courteously sent to me on this subject. Are Ministers aware of the dimension of the problem nationally? For instance, does the hon. Gentleman know that the necessary decision by the Leeds city council to demolish the Hunslet Grange flats in the constituency of my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds, South (Mr. Rees) means that, because of the debt charges remaining, the Leeds housing revenue account will have to bear the cost of £1 million a year for the foreseeable future? It also means that every council house tenant in Leeds will have to pay 22p a week extra in rent for the next 40 years to offset the cost of this one block of flats. Does the Minister think that that is a fair burden to place on council tenants in Leeds? If not, what further proposals do the Government have in mind to deal with this alarming position?

Sir George Young

I am aware of the issues facing Leeds Members and hon. Members in other parts of the country. The Government are generally not willing to encourage the demolition of public assets. We hope that local authorities will view such a policy as one of last resort. If they decide to pursue such a policy, they must assess the financial consequences. I cannot, as a general rule, justify providing Government financial support, which would have to come from other local authorities' new build programmes.

Mr. Durant

I agree with a great deal of what my hon. Friend has said, but there is a problem with this special type of building in different parts of the country. The Government should examine this as a unique problem which arose from a policy advanced by hon. Members on both sides of the House, by architects and by people in the construction industry. This peculiar problem requires special attention.

Sir George Young

My hon. Friend is right to point out that previous Governments have encouraged the use of industrialised systems to increase the output of the house building industry, but it does not follow that the Government must be responsible for defects in design or in construction which have now emerged. The need for capital expenditure for dealing with such problems is taken into account in determining HIP allocations.

Several Hon. Members

rose—

Mr. Speaker

Order. I shall call one more Back Bencher from either side of the House on this question before I call a Front Bench Member. Then we shall have to move more quickly.

Mr. Woolmer

Does the Minister realise that his remarks will appear appallingly complacent and heartless to the thousands of tenants who have suffered in these dwellings for many years? Will he reconsider the position of the Leeds city council, which has a housing waiting list of 22,000 and is building only 400 new dwellings a year? Will he at least agree to meet representatives of the Leeds city council and Leeds Members of Parliament to discuss what is a genuinely serious matter for many thousands of tenants?

Sir George Young

I am always prepared to see Members of Parliament who wish to discuss constituency issues.

In response to the hon. Gentleman's first point, when it comes to giving help for this type of problem the policy being pursued by this Administration is the same as that followed by the Labour Administration.

Mr. John Page

Is my hon. Friend changing standards and keeping his eye more firmly on the production of industrialised and semi-industrialised systems?

Sir George Young

Yes. In conjunction with the local authority associations, a defects prevention unit at the Building Research Establishment has been set up to advise on design and site practices and to assist in the prevention of building defects. If resources were switched to tackling the specific problem mentioned, they would have to come from somewhere else in the building programme.

Mr. Kaufman

As the Secretary of State is in the Chamber, may I ask him to accept that it is not good enough to fob off on to a junior Minister a major problem affecting many thousands of people in most of our large cities? Does he agree that we are talking about a major national issue? Will the Secretary of State take the initiative on what his hon. Friend the Member for Reading, North (Mr. Durant) said was the responsibility of successive Governments and call a conference of the leaders of the local authorities involved to discuss these grave issues?

Sir George Young

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has heard the request. I am sure that he will respond to it in due course.