§ 14. Mr. Knoxasked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how much was spent per pupil in secondary schools in England in the most recent year for which figures are available; and how this compares with the figure for 1978–79.
§ Sir Keith JosephNet institutional recurrent expenditure per secondary pupil in England in 1980–81 was £771; the corresponding figure three years earlier, for 1978–79, at constant prices, was £10 lower, £761.
§ Mr. KnoxDoes my right hon. Friend agree that if there is a connection between the amount of money spent on education and standards, on the basis of those figures there is no reason why standards in secondary schools should have fallen since the Government came to power and there are reasons why they might have risen?
§ Sir Keith JosephThere is a connection between resources and standards. However, on the other hand, there are many examples where resources are spent beyond the target or GRE, yet standards have not noticeably improved. I repeat that, while there is a great deal of truth in what my hon. Friend says, effectiveness of teaching and motivation of pupils are the key elements.
§ Mr. Gwilym RobertsDoes the Secretary of State accept that the low level of student grants is relevant to the fact that a small proportion of children from working-class families have gone to university under successive Governments? Will the Secretary of State tell the House what he intends to do about that problem?
§ Sir Keith JosephI am glad that the hon. Gentleman accepts that there has been a fall, which we all deplore, in the number of children from relatively poor households going to university under successive Governments. Nevertheless, I cannot accept that it is right, when most people are being financially squeezed, to squeeze them further to provide an increase in grants for students at university.