§ Mr. Alfred Dubs (Battersea, South)On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. It arises out of the votes in the House last week on the clauses on hanging in which my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Maxton) and I were Tellers for the Noes. On the following day and the day after various newspapers, in particular The Times, The Daily Telegraph and The Guardian, published Division lists and analysed the voting Member by Member and party by party. They did not, however, include the Tellers in the analysis.
I appreciate that what the newspapers publish is no concern of yours, Mr. Speaker, and that is not my point of order. However, you will concede that, if one has taken a stand on an issue to the extent of being a Teller because one is so committed to that issue, it is embarrassing to be thought by one's constituents and others to have been so tardy that one was not interested in being in the House on the relevant evening. It ought not to be a disadvantage, as it manifestly was last week to be a Teller in a Division.
There are two aspects to my point of order. First, it has long been the practice of the House that when the figures in a Division are given the two Tellers on each side are not included in the voting figures. I wonder whether that decision might be reviewed. Secondly, and more importantly I understand that officials of the House provide for the press photocopies or copies of the Division list taken by the Clerks in the Division Lobbies which contain the ticks against the names of the Members who pass through the Lobbies. Those lists which are provided by officials of the House—I believe, Mr. Speaker under your instructions or under your authority—do not include the names of the Tellers, so I can well understand that the more unsophisticated newspapers are not aware of the practice of the House and the part played by Tellers.
Will you examine this matter, Mr. Speaker, to see whether any change in our arrangements should be made?
§ Mr. SpeakerI am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving me notice that he would seek to raise his point of order.
It has been well accepted over centuries that the Tellers are not included in the Division totals. In fact, the Tellers have not been included in the totals since the first recorded Divisions. It is for the House, if it wishes, to change that system; it is not for me. Teller's names are announced in the House by the occupant of the Chair during the course of each Division. They are announced in a loud, clear voice. Therefore, there should be no difficulty, even for the unsophisticated, in becoming aware of them in any Division.