REVISION OF PENALITIES FOR SUMMARY OFFENCES AND OF CERTAIN OTHER SUMS (Hansard, 12 May 1982)

§ The Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Alexander Fletcher)
I beg to move amendment No. 48, in page 40, line 9, after `subsections', insert '(1A),'.

Mr. Deputy Speaker
With this we may take Government amendments Nos. 49 to 59.

§ Mr. Fletcher
Part IV of the Bill includes provisions in clauses 39 to 41 that are applicable only to Scotland. It has been necessary to draft separate provisions for Scotland because of differences in how the changes in fines are affected by the Criminal Law Act 1977 and are applied to the different jurisdictions and, in particular, because the Scottish provisions in the Bill are, like those in the 1977 Act, to be inserted into the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1975. The amendments are, therefore, of a drafting or technical nature.

§ Mr. George Foulkes (South Ayrshire)
It has been a long night and we have at last reached something that is relevant to Scotland. However, I am not too happy about that, because I cannot understand why the Government did not introduce the amendments into the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill in 1980. I hope that the Under-Secretary will tell us why they appear in this dog's breakfast of a Bill.
Clause 54, which outlines the extent to which the measure applies to various parts of the United Kingdom, is one of the most complicated such clauses that I have ever seen. Those of us who know and respect the difference in Scots law and in the administration of justice in Scotland do not like legislation for Scotland being packed into what are principally English Bills. If we have legislation which applies only to Scotland and if we have 899 Scottish Standing Committees to deal with it, it is wrong that it should be squeezed in as a codicil to a basically English Bill.
Many of my colleagues who are unable to be here this morning agree with me. [Interruption.] One is enough to put the case on behalf of many, as the hon. Member for Grantham (Mr. Hogg) knows only too well. My hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. McKelvey) may wish to add something or express his support from a sedentary position.
Scottish legislation, as much in the criminal field as any other, should be dealt with separately by separate Scottish Standing Committees so that it can be discussed by Scottish Members who know what they are talking about. I say that with no disrespect to my hon. Friends on the Front Bench who discussed these matters efficiently and elegantly. However, it is more appropriate for these matters to be dealt with in a Scottish Standing Committee.
What makes the position even more ludicrous is that on the Standing Committee which considered the Bill—I am open to correction—there was not one hon. Member representing a Scottish constituency. Part IV of the Bill, with a substantial number of clauses concerning Scotland, was passed in Committee without any Scottish Member having an opportunity to discuss it and to put the points of view that should be put in the consideration of such matters.
I would also like to talk about the amazing provisions on page 48 of the Bill which affect certain enactments concerning the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, but I would be out of order. However, that demonstrates what a real dog's breakfast of a Bill this is.
I would like to put on record a strong protest on behalf of many Scots Members of the fact that Scottish legislation is being dealt with in so perfunctory and cavalier a manner by the House.

§ Mr. Alexander Fletcher
There is no excuse for the indignation of the hon. Member for South Ayrshire (Mr. Foulkes). He knows as well as most hon. Members in the House this evening that Scottish legislation, particularly of this kind, is dealt with separately. A United Kingdom Bill is being made use of—as is occasionally done by both parties—to update legislation. He will know that the purpose of the Bill is to provide, among other measures, for a broad uprating of the maximum fines for summary offences, together with powers to provide for subsequent increases in line with inflation. No fundamental change is being made to Scottish legislation, but we are taking the opportunity presented by the Bill to bring the fines in Scottish legislation into line with inflation.
The hon. Gentleman is being unnecessarily critical of what is a convenient legislative opportunity that has been taken in respect of a very small part of the Bill which applies to Scotland. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will be delighted to know that the then Solicitor-General for Scotland attended the Committee on these and other matters.