HC Deb 11 May 1982 vol 23 cc592-3
11. Mr. Hal Miller

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services how many beds in the National Health Service are unused for lack of (a) staff, (b) finance and (c) patients.

Mr. Fowler

The information requested is not available centrally, but at any point a considerable number of beds in National Health Service hospitals will not be in use for a variety of reasons.

Mr. Miller

Is it not the case that the action proposed by certain bodies in the National Health Service to extract an increase in wages over and above any increase in output in the economy will lead to more beds being left empty and an increase in the waiting lists, which were being shortened? Is it not the case that the action is undoubtedly seeking to make use of patients as a form of moral blackmail of the Government?

Mr. Fowler

I agree with the points that have been made by my hon. Friend, in particular his comments about waiting lists. Waiting list numbers have fallen from about 750,000 in March 1979, following the winter of discontent, to fewer than 630,000 on 31 March 1981. It would be a tragedy for patients if that advance and those improvements were now to be put at risk.

Mrs. Dunwoody

If the Secretary of State wants to see peace in the National Health Service, why is he not prepared to let the health unions go to arbitration, because it is tremendously important that, if we are to have an efficient Health Service, it must be staffed by people who know that they are important to the country? The Secretary of State is making it clear to them that he does not give a damn.

Mr. Fowler

That is a total travesty of the position. The Government have not cut the National Health Service, but have increased the real resources that go to the National Health Service by about 6 per cent. We have also increased the amount of money that is available for pay, so that an extra amount can be made available for nurses and midwives. I am sure that that has the support of the House. I hope that the Opposition will also take the opportunity to deplore any industrial action that puts at risk the interests of patients.

Mr. Peter Bottomley

Does my right hon. Friend agree that most people will accept that if the National Health Service unions continue to insist upon a pay increase of 12 per cent. it can lead only to more inflation and less of the real growth that provides the resources for the NHS? Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Opposition would be well advised to try to sort out about a year in advance which groups have a special case rather than supporting every special case each week?

Mr. Fowler

My hon. Friend is right. We have made a fair and realistic offer to the NHS. Like him, I believe that the 12 per cent. claim is unrealistic.

Mr. Pavitt

What is the Secretary of State doing about the effect on unused beds and waiting lists of the acute shortage of qualified theatre sisters and qualified renal nurses? What is he doing about the 7,140 qualified nurses who are now on the dole?

How does the right hon. Gentleman propose to help hard-pressed nurses, suffering because of the six-month maternity leave provisions for their fellow nurses? Is he aware that extra finance is not being made available so that the vacancies can be filled?

Mr. Fowler

The numbers of people employed in the NHS have increased from 1979 to 1981 by 47,000. That includes a 34,000 increase in nurses. That is a considerable achievement.