Republic of Ireland (Co-operation) (Hansard, 25 March 1982)

§ 3. Mr. Dubs
asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland when he plans to meet representatives of the Government of the Republic of Ireland to discuss co-operation between Northern Ireland and the Republic.

§ 5. Mr. Nicholas Winterton
asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what plans he has for an early meeting with the Prime Minister of the Republic of Ireland; and what subjects he intends to raise.

§ 9. Mr. Marlow
asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland when he next expects to meet the Prime Minister of the Republic of Ireland to discuss future political developments in both parts of Ireland.

§ 10. Mr. Flannery
asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he has any plans to meet the new Prime Minister of the Republic of Ireland to discuss the new Government's policy towards Northern Ireland.

§ 14. Mr. Farr
asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland when he expects to meet the new Prime Minister of the Republic of Ireland to discuss cross-border security.

§ 15. Mr. Parry
asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he has any plans to meet the Taoiseach to discuss the new Government's policy towards Northern Ireland.

§ Mr. Prior
I have no immediate plans to do so, but I look forward to meeting members of the new Government of the Republic of Ireland shortly, within the framework of the Anglo-Irish Intergovernmental Council, to discuss matters of mutual interest, including economic co-operation and security matters. I shall at an appropriate moment explain to the new Irish Government our present approach to political development in Northern Ireland.

Several Hon. Members
rose—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I propose to call first the six hon. Members whose questions are being answered.

§ Mr. Dubs
Can the Secretary of State confirm that it is still his intention to work for closer co-operation between Northern Ireland and the Government of the Republic, and that, in addition to economic matters, this co-operation will cover social and political issues?

§ Mr. Prior
I confirm the first part of what the hon. Gentleman said on security and economic co-operation. The other matters must be conducted through the Governments of the United Kingdom and the Republic. That is an important process and as long is it is done in a way that is seen to be perfectly open and straightforward, more confidence and respect will be carried to other parts.

§ Mr. Winterton
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the best way to establish improved co-operation with the Republic and with Prime Minister Haughey is to establish a proper extradition agreement between the United Kingdom Government and the Irish Republic? Further, will my right hon. Friend inform Mr. Haughey, when he first meets him, now that Mr. Haughey has assumed the Irish premiership, that Ulster is part of the United Kingdom, not as long as the people of Ulster want it, but is part of the United Kingdom just as much as Wales and Scotland are and will long remain so?

§ Mr. Prior
Successive Irish Governments have never been left in any doubt about the importance that we attach to the problem of fugitive offenders. We believe that a workable extradition arrangement offers the best way of dealing with it and of ensuring that terrorists are brought to justice. We shall continue to make our concern abundantly clear, and when I next see Mr. Haughey I shall do so again.

§ Mr. Marlow
Will my right hon. Friend tell Mr. Haughey when he sees him that whatever benefits he might accrue domestically, demands for the reunification of Ireland cause grave problems for Irish-United Kingdom relations and have a destabilising effect in Northern Ireland, leading to increased violence and more hope for the IRA?

§ Mr. Prior
I take that question with the supplementary question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield (Mr. Winterton). It is recognised and accepted by Mr. Haughey, and before him by Dr. FitzGerald, that no change to the constitution of Northern Ireland can be made without the consent of the people of Northern Ireland. That consent is not forthcoming. There must be self-determination at all times and we fully respect that. I hope that all the people of Northern Ireland will work for the peace and prosperity of the Province and will accept that there are many advantages in being part of the United Kingdom.

§ Mr. Flannery
Will the Minister realise that there are still powerful voices among the Unionists leadership who want only to return to the same Stormont that produced the anti-democracy that caused all the troubles in Northern Ireland, including the melancholy killings, even those that have happened today? The right hon. Member must not allow himself to be diverted from peaceful discussions with the leadership in the Republic with the idea of ultimately securing peace and prosperity for the whole of Ireland, North and South.

§ Mr. Prior
I must make it abundantly clear that I believe that if any government in Northern Ireland is to be stable it must recognise that there are two communities and must seek to involve both communities in some sense in any devolved Assembly. Otherwise, I do not believe that it would have the stability that is required.

§ Mr. Farr
When my right hon. Friend meets the leader of the South, will he congratulate that whole country on its splendid record in the apprehension and suppression of terrorism South of the border, which has occurred at a very difficult time for that country? Will he also ask the new leader whether the Republic of Ireland is prepared to consider once again becoming a signatory to the Council of Europe treaty on the suppression of terrorism?

§ Mr. Prior
Certainly I could look at the latter point that my hon. Friend has raised. I am grateful to him for his first point, as co-operation on security matters in the past year or so has greatly improved, to the advantage of all the people of the whole of Ireland. Moreover, although we would of course wish to see extradition, we note that the effectiveness of extra-territorial legislation has much improved in recent months, and we hope that that will continue.

§ Mr. Parry
Does the Secretary of State accept that future meetings with the Taoiseach must include the subject of Irish unity and that this will be a continuing dialogue? Will he treat with contempt or ignore hon. Members who are trying to sabotage such talks?

§ Mr. Prior
I shall so long as both present and former Taoiseachs recognise that the important word is "consent". I understand that that is the position of the Opposition as well as of the Government.

§ Mr. McCusker
The original question referred to co-operation. Will the Secretary of State confirm that there has never been any reluctance on the part of the people of Northern Ireland to co-operate with the people of the Republic, to their mutual advantage? But will he remind Mr. Haughey that if the Republic removed the offensive articles 2 and 3 of its constitution, which lay claim to our territory, there would be even greater scope for cooperation?

§ Mr. Prior
Just as I am intent upon the future of Northern Ireland being the responsibility of this House, so it would be wrong for me to start telling other Governments what they should do, although one recognises the hon. Gentleman's point. I believe that it is important for us to make certain that in any connections between North and South the people of the North should feel that they are making the decisions, as they did before on economic matters when there was far more cooperation between North and South than has been possible in the past few years. That owes something to the suspicions in the North about what goes on in London.

§ Mr. Peter Robinson
Will the Secretary of State take it from me that the people of Northern Ireland do not expect him to take a neutral attitude when their constitution is being discussed? Will he tell the Taoiseach the next time he meets him face to face that his clumsy and insensitive comments are doing great harm in Northern Ireland, and will he tell him where the Northern Ireland border is?

§ Mr. Prior
"Neutrality" must be a subjective word. I am seeking to work for the good of all the people of Northern Ireland. I believe that it is greatly to the advantage of the United Kingdom that there should be friendly and good co-operation between the United Kingdom and the Republic. If that helps to solve some of the security and economic problems of Northern Ireland, that is a bonus.

§ Mr. Winnick
Leaving aside the sectarian bigots on the Government Benches and the terrorists who continue to glory in murder, is it not a fact that the co-operation and indeed the approval of the Irish Government is necessary before a political solution can be found to the crisis in Northern Ireland?

§ Mr. Prior
I should like to think that we can discuss these matters across the Floor of the House without using extravagant language which does nothing to help solve what is a terribly difficult problem for both sides. Therefore, let us try to get going something that can be supported by all the people of Northern Ireland as well as by the people of the United Kingdom and the Republic.

§ Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson
When my right hon. Friend next meets the Taoiseach, will he ask him to elaborate on his comments that the present plans for a devolved Assembly are unworkable?

§ Mr. Prior
I have no arrangements at present to meet the Taoiseach, but when I do those points are bound to arise. I hope that I shall have the chance to meet the Taoiseach and perhaps the Irish Foreign Minister before long, as I believe that nothing but good can come out of a full explanation.