§ Mr. Allan StewartI beg to move amendment No. 51, in page 15, line 6, leave out
'subject to subsection (2) below'.
§ Mr. StewartI have spent some time disagreeing with my hon. Friend the Member for Perth and East Perthshire (Mr. Walker) on these important matters. However, amendment No. 51 meets an undertaking that I gave in Committee. I undertook to consider making it clear that the request for hiring has to be received by the driver in the area for which he is licensed to make it less easy for radio-controlled vehicles to congregate in an area for which they are not licensed while taking instructions by 1135 means of radios and so on from an area for which they are licensed. Government amendment No. 55 is the cross-border reciprocity amendment that we discussed earlier.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Mr. Allan StewartI beg to move amendment No. 52, in page 15, line 12, leave out '200' and insert '500'.
Mr. Deputy SpeakerWith this it will be convenient to take Government amendments Nos. 56, 57 and 62.
§ Mr. StewartThese are consequential amendments. They make a change in penalties similar to the change that was made in Government amendment No. 34. That matter was discussed in Committee.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§
Amendments made: No. 53, in page 15, line 16, after `received', insert
'by its driver whilst—
(a)'.
§
No. 54, in page 15, line 17, at end insert—
'(b) engaged on hire on a journey which began in that area or part or will end there; or
(c) is returning to that area or part immediately following completion of a journey on hire.'.
§ No. 55, in page 15, line 17, at end insert—
§ '(2A) Subsection (1)(b) above does not apply to the operation of a vehicle within an area in respect of which its operation or its driver is not licensed if there are in force—
- (i) in respect of the vehicle, a licence under section 37 of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847 (licensing of hackney carriages) or section 48 of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 (licensing of private hire vehicles); and
- (ii) in respect of its driver, a licence under section 46 of the said Act of 1847 (licensing of hackney carriage drivers) or, as the case may be, section 51 of the said Act of 1976 (licensing of drivers of private hire vehicles)'.
§ No. 56, in page 15, line 24, leave out '200' and insert `500'.
§ No. 57, in page 15, line 30, leave out '200' and insert `500'.—[Mr. Allan Stewart.]
8.30 pm§ Mr. Allan StewartI beg to move amendment No. 58, in page 15, line 32, leave out `(a)'.
§ Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Paul Dean)With this it will be convenient to take Government amendments Nos. 59 to 61.
§ Mr. StewartThe amendment deletes from clause 20(5) references to a taximeter registering incorrectly. The hon. Member for Glasgow, Garscadden (Mr. Dewar) made the suggestion to the Committee.
§ Mr. Bill WalkerMy hon. Friend the Minister will remember that I also spoke on this amendment in Committee. I should like an assurance from him about the point that I raised then—that when a replacement meter is installed during a holiday period or at a weekend, the chap operating the cab will not find himself in contravention of the law. The meters cannot be properly checked at those times. My hon. Friend will remember that I pointed out to the Committee that this could occur on a holiday weekend when the bulk of the business may be for that month.
§ Mr. StewartMy hon. Friend is right. I apologise for not referring to that point when I introduced the 1136 amendment. I assure him that any such offence under this provision will now rest on the common law of fraud. I hope that gives my hon. Friend the detailed reassurance that he wishes.
§ Mr. Harry EwingHow will the amendments leave this part of the Bill? Amendment No. 58 leaves out paragraph (a). I assume that that does not include the leaving out of the words that follow (a):
without good cause breaks the seal on a taximeter;Amendment No. 59 is fairly clear. Amendment No. 60 leaves out paragraph (c). Once again, I assume that that does not include the leaving out of the words following it. Amendment No. 61 leaves out from "broken" to the end of line 37 and amendment No. 62 is quite clear.It is important for the sake of clarity that the Minister says how the amendments leave this part of the Bill. There appears to be some confusion. When I discussed it with some people, there was some misunderstanding about what the amendments are intended to achieve and what they mean.
§ Mr. StewartThe amendments take out subsection (5) of the clause. I am happy to explain their purposes at greater length. They arise from the discussion about the meaning of "incorrectly", which was prompted, by the hon. Member for Glasgow, Garscadden (Mr. Dewar).
At present, subsection (5), as well as providing offences for the breaking of a seal of a taximeter or operating or driving a taxi knowing that the seal is broken, provides offences for altering a taximeter so as to make it register incorrectly. Disquiet arose in Committee about the precise meaning of "incorrectly" as used in this clause. We undertook, therefore, to consider whether a precise definition could be produced. We have been unable to produce such a definition which did not appear to risk confusion between calibration, on the one hand, and the approved fare scale, on the other. Hon. Members will recall the technically sophisticated discussion in Committee on that point.
The reference to the meter registering incorrectly is intended to prevent fraud. That matter is already covered by common law. Because of the difficulties surrounding the reference to a meter registering "incorrectly", the amendment deletes reference to it. The offence will therefore rest simply on the common law of fraud. We have re-examined the underlying purpose of the clause—it is to prevent fraud. The English legislation of 1976 contains the concept of altering a meter with intent to mislead. We have concluded, therefore, that the offence can be dealt with under the common law of fraud and have decided to avoid the problem of defining "incorrectly" by dropping the phrases altogether. I hope that is clear. I shall continue, however, as the hon. Member for Stirling, Falkirk and Grangemouth (Mr. Ewing) wants clarification as well as an explanation of how clause 20(5) will now read. It will be as follows:
If any person without good cause breaks the seal on a taximeter or operates or drives a taxi or private hire car knowing that the seal on its meter has been broken he shall be guilty of an offence".I hope that that description meets the hon. Gentleman's request.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Amendments made: No. 59, in page 15, line 33, leave out line 33.
§ No. 60, in page 15, line 35, leave out `(c)'.
1137§ No. 61, in page 15, line 36, leave out from 'broken' to end of line 37.
§ No. 62, in page 15, line 39, leave out '200' and insert `500'.—[Mr. Allan Stewart.]
§ Mr. Allan StewartI beg to move amendment No. 63, in page 16, line 6, leave out subsection (8).
The hon. Member for Glasgow, Garscadden (Mr. Dewar) thought that we could leave out subsection (8) of clause 20 and we have concluded that we can.
§ Mr. Harry EwingI am sure that my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Garscadden (Mr. Dewar) would wish me to thank the Minister for agreeing to remove subsection (8). It is with pleasure that I place on record our thanks to the Minister.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Mr. Allan StewartI beg to move amendment No. 64, in page 16, line 11, leave out subsection (9).
The hon. Member for Glasgow, Garscadden (Mr. Dewar) raised a similar point about this amendment and we have concluded that it would be right to remove subsection (9).
§ Amendment agreed to.