§ 8. Mrs. Renée Shortasked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he has had discussions with other countries about the problems of acid rain.
§ 12. Mr. Stuart Hollandasked the Secretary of State for the Environment what action his Department is taking to diminish the incidence of acid rain pollution emanating from the United Kingdom.
§ 20. Mr. Stallardasked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement on the policy of Her Majesty's Government towards incidence of acid rain pollution.
§ Mr. Giles ShawI have recently discussed the problems of acid rain with representatives of other countries at the acidification conference in Stockholm. For the results of the conference, I refer hon. Members to my answer of 15 July to my hon. Friend the Member for Northampton, South (Mr. Morris). We have other frequent contacts, especially in the context of the 1979 convention on long range transboundary air pollution, which we ratified on 15 July. Our emissions of suphur dioxide have already fallen by more than 20 per cent. during the last decade, and our energy conservation and fuel policies may well reduce this further.
§ Mrs. ShortI thank the Minister for that informative reply. There has been a drop in the level of pollution, but it appears that the countries worst affected by acid rain pollution are Britain and the United States. Is he aware that this problem is affecting not only Scandinavia, but regions as distant as the Arctic, and that eventually that could have serious repercussion on the world's ecology? I am aware, from a reply that the Minister gave recently, that we are spending about £1½ million in an attempt to resolve the problem of pollution. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that we must do much more and at least ensure that our power stations reduce their pollution of the atmosphere?
§ Mr. ShawI agree with the hon. Lady that pollution is an important problem which the Government must take seriously. That is why we are particularly pleased that the convention on long range transboundary air pollution has now been ratified by so many nations. In that convention there is a commitment to work towards generally acceptable methods of control of sulphur emissions, which includes sulphur emissions from power stations.
§ Mr. Robert AtkinsDuring his discussions with other countries, has my hon. Friend discovered any authority comparable with the North West water authority which charges ratepayers for rain falling on their roofs, be it acid or any other rain? Is that something that he would wish to encourage? Does he know of any other authority that does that—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. Does the hon. Gentleman really feel that this is connected with the question on the Order Paper, which relates only to acid rain?
§ Mr. Robert AtkinsMr. Speaker, I was asking my hon. Friend whether acid or any other rain attracted such a charge.
§ Mr. ShawThis is an acid question, to which I propose to give an alkaline response. I take note of my hon. Friend's remarks.
§ Mr. Stephen RossI congratulate the Government on taking part in the Stockholm discussions on acid rain. Will the Government give much greater priority to a matter that will affect the world's population during the next 20 or 30 years? I believe that about 150 lakes in Canada are already dead, and the same is happening in Scandinavia. Forests are dying in Germany. This is a matter—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The hon. Gentleman is making a speech. He must ask a question.
§ Mr. ShawI assure the hon. Gentleman that we are taking this problem extremely seriously. The evidence so far produced does not indicate that, for a given reduction in sulphur emissions, there will be a given improvement in the ecology of the country concerned.
§ Mr. GoldingIs the Minister aware that some of Britain's rivers are now badly affected by acid rain, as are the runs of sea trout and salmon? Britain's anglers expect the Government to do something as quickly as possible.
§ Mr. ShawI am aware that there are localised problems in the United Kingdom. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that special researches are taking place in South West Scotland into the ecology of certain rivers. I assure him that this problem is not nearly as severe as the media often make out.
§ Dr. David ClarkI am interested in the 20 per cent. reduction in emissions, because I recollect hearing similar figures from the Minister's predecessors in the 1970s. Is the hon. Gentleman talking about a 20 per cent. reduction from stacks, in domestic fall-out or at international level? Those are different and important considerations. Will he assure the House that the Government will do everything possible to achieve international co-operation and will try to bring the Soviet Union into the negotiations, as it did not attend the Stockholm conference?
§ Mr. ShawThat figure results from monitoring that we carry out from time to time in areas not directly associated with stacks. As I have said, that monitoring shows a progressive reduction in sulphur emissions totalling 20 per cent. I agree that this is an international problem. The sooner we get full support from all industrial nations, the better our chances of arriving at an internationally agreed solution.
§ Mr. Campbell-SavoursOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I notice that I was excluded from the grouping on this question. Will you perhaps comment?
§ Mr. SpeakerIt is not for me to comment, but I hope that we will reach the hon. Gentleman's question.
§ Mr. Campbell-SavoursIt is question 40.
§ Mr. SpeakerIn that case, we shall have to move rather fast.