HC Deb 20 July 1982 vol 28 cc197-8
6. Mr. Tilley

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he has yet decided what further part his Department might play in encouraging teacher education to take account of the multi-ethnic character of society in other ways than at present, as promised in Cmnd. 8476.

Dr. Boyson

The task of identifying more precisely what should be done is being tackled by the Swann committee. We must await its views before deciding what part the Department might play.

Mr. Tilley

Is the Under-Secretary not aware that in a few days' time it will be the first anniversary of the publication of the report of the Select Committee on Home Affairs' on racial disadvantage, which drew attention to the fact that for many of the teachers who will go into inner city schools and multi-racial areas there is no compulsory training to deal with the many problems and possibilities involved in multi-racial education?

Is the hon. Gentleman saying that he will allow this disgraceful situation, which affects my constituency and many others in inner cities, to drift on until he has received the full report from the Swann committee and considered it for several months? Does he not recognise that, as the Select Committee pointed out, urgent action is needed?

Dr. Boyson

In October the Department issued a consultative document on which material is still coming in. Part of the problem, following the Rampton report, was that many general statements were made, but there were no specific recommendations that could be put into effect. We hope that the Swann committee will give us something that can take us from general principles to actuality. Twenty-three courses on special access are running now and the first graduates will come out next year. I give the hon. Gentleman that additional information for his benefit, even though he did not ask for it. The colleges are aware of what is happening and I am sure that many are adapting the lessons to the present situation.

Mr. Marlow

While teachers in training must obviously be taught about the diverse backgrounds from which our people come, with regard to the culture that they are taught to teach, if we want a cohesive society it would be more positive to teach them to concentrate on traditional British culture. That is where public provision should come in. Private provision could quite properly look after the important cultural backgrounds of many pupils in our schools.

Dr. Boyson

My hon. Friend draws attention to a dichotomy. Teachers should be aware of the background of their pupils, but the vast majority of the parents of those pupils want them completely integrated into our society, otherwise they will face double deprivation.

My constituency has at least as high a proportion of immigrants as that of the hon. Member for Lambeth, Central (Mr. Tilley). West Indians in my area wish to set up their own school because, they said, in basic literature, English and mathematics their children were not being properly taught and were being deprived as a result of special action being taken only for them.

Mr. Kinnock

Will the hon. Gentleman disadvantage or enhance the process of stability, unity and cohesion in our society by encouraging or discouraging—[Interruption].—Mr. Speaker, there is nothing that 1 can do about the ineducable below the Gangway.

Mr. Speaker

Order.

Mr. Kinnock

I am actually referring to the hon. Member for Yarmouth (Sir A. Fell). Perhaps I shall see him outside afterwards. Does the Minister believe that those desirable objectives will be advanced or retarded by the creation of separate schools, with or without his encouragement, along colour lines?

Dr. Boyson

This is obviously a complicated question. It is interesting that the demand came from the people themselves because they wanted basic education in the schools, as was reported in the national press last week. This is a particularly delicate matter. One must accept that children come from different backgrounds and that, in many cases, they want to keep their own culture and languages and to stay in their own groups. At the same time, the parents want education to allow their children to compete equally, without discrimination when they leave school, for the jobs that they will go to.

Mr. Speaker

Order. We are getting very long questions and answers.