HC Deb 14 July 1982 vol 27 cc1018-9
3. Mr. Proctor

asked the Secretary of State for Transport when he expects to receive the Greater London Council's transport policies and programme document.

The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr. David Howell)

All county and metropolitan councils have been asked to submit their transport policies and programme documents by the end of July.

Mr. Proctor

Would it not be in the best interests of London's travelling public if London Transport were removed from the GLC's sticky paws and placed temporarily with his Department so that a study can be made of the possibility of privatising the entire operation? Would that not be in the best interests of London's transport consumers?

Mr. Howell

From bitter experience, there is something to be said for a changed structure within which London Transport can work. I await with interest the report from the Select Committee on Transport on the right structure for the administration of London's transport. I understand that the report is due soon. I shall study it with great interest, as will many others.

Mr. Christopher Price

Does the Minister's last answer mean that the Government now believe in new quangos and have given up their desire to reduce them? Does the Minister agree that London Transport fares are far too high? If the GLC puts a plan to the Minister under which, gradually, they can be reduced in real terms, will he agree to it?

Mr. Howell

My last answer means what it said. I think that Londonders have had a raw deal in transport organisation. New thoughts are not out of place. I hope that the GLC will produce a firm and sensible plan. I detect some signs that the GLC now accepts that its "Fare's Fair" experiment was unrealistic and unworkable nonsense and, therefore, I have hopes that it will produce a sensible plan. I should like lower fares and lower costs. They are too high. The plan must be formulated around that aim.

Mr. Greenway

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Labour-controlled GLC is breaking an election pledge in deciding to go ahead with the new bypass and terminating it at the White Hart roundabout in Northolt? Does he agree that that will have catastrophic effects on local people and does he not deplore that appalling behaviour?

Mr. Howell

I note what my hon. Friend says. He will have enough experience of politics to know that election pledges are not always fulfilled to the letter.

Mr. Robert Hughes

Will the Secretary of State undertake to have no truck with the nonsense expressed by his hon. Friend the Member for Basildon (Mr. Proctor)? More important, will he consider discussing not only the Select Committee's report but the GLC's proposals? May we have a firm assurance that before coming to a conclusion he will publish a Green Paper so that all the ideas can be thoroughly canvassed and discussed before any change is made in London Transport's structure?

Mr. Howell

I cannot give an undertaking now about the precise way in which we shall carry the debate forward, but I hope that the GLC will have some views on a changed and improved structure for transport for London and the surrounding counties. That would be desirable. The chairman of London Transport, among others, has made his views known, and other views have been offered to the Select Committee. We should wait for its conclusions.