HC Deb 01 July 1982 vol 26 cc1027-8
5. Mr. Kilfedder

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether, in view of Her Majesty's Government's policy towards the establishment of a new central body to oversee the financing and the management of higher education outside the universities, he will suspend action on the proposed amalgamation of the New University of Ulster and the Ulster Polytechnic until consideration of the two approaches outlined in the July 1981 consultative document issued by the Secretary of State for Education and Science have been completed.

The Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Nicholas Scott)

No, Sir.

Mr. Kilfedder

Is the Minister aware that senior academics are angry because they suspect certain members of the University Grants Committee of secretly using the proposed amalgamation of the Ulster Polytechnic and the New University to bolster the continuing role of the UGC as the pre-eminent body in higher education?

Mr. Scott

The proposals for the new institutions to replace the polytechnic and the New University were decided upon by the Government in response to the future higher educational needs of the Province, and for no other reason.

Mr. McCusker

Does the Minister agree that a province the size of Northern Ireland, with a population of its size, needs one good university and one good polytechnic? Is there not a grave danger that with his proposals we shall finish up with two second rate universities?

Mr. Scott

The point to be drawn from the size of the Province and its higher educational needs is that the binary system makes no sense in the Province. To have two good universities with complementary roles is the real answer to our needs.

Mr. Rhodes James

Can my hon. Friend say something about the timing of this matter and when he expects to hear from my distinguished constituent Sir Peter Swinnerton-Dyer on the methodology how these institutions can be brought together? In contradiction to the view of the hon. Member for Armagh (Mr. McCusker), will the Minister accept my view, and that of many in the Province, that this amalgamation presents the possibility of having two great universities in Ulster?

Mr. Scott

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for those remarks, and I agree with the latter part of them. It would be wrong for me to lay down any rigid timetable, because I look forward to receiving sustained advice from the steering group. The most important first task is to examine the staffing implications and the assurances that it can give to the staff and the students of the two institutions concerned.

Mr. Soley

Can the Minister give any reassurance to the teaching staff and other related staffs in the institutions concerned that there will not be a significant reduction in jobs as a result of the measure? Is the Minister aware that there are real fears that this is cuts in education dressed up as educational progress?

Mr. Scott

That is not the case. I have now given broad financial guidelines to the steering group, and I look forward to having its advice in the near future on the staffing implications of the merger.