HC Deb 25 February 1982 vol 18 cc973-5
Mr. Parry

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the latest unemployment figures for the Province.

Mr. Adam Butler

The total number of people registered as unemployed in Northern Ireland on 13 February was 112,209; 19.5 per cent. of all employees. The small fall which this figure represents in the numbers out of work is welcome but the underlying trend is still adverse and the immediate likelihood for an improvement in the situation is not good.

However, the prospects of new manufacturing investment have improved slightly, whilst the recently announced increases in public expenditure allocations are estimated to provide over 9,000 additional employment and training opportunities in 1982–83.

In the longer term, any significant improvement depends upon many factors, including the state of world trade and of the national economy, as well as the creation within Northern Ireland of conditions which would make it more attractive to new investors.

Mr. Parry

Are these not disgraceful figures? What positive plans do the Government have to reduce unemployment in Northern Ireland, particularly among young people? Does the hon. Gentleman agree that his right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and her policies are not helping in this regard?

Mr. Butler

The figures are unacceptable and I have said so before in the House. We can be a little encouraged by the improvement in the trend. Unemployment is not as bad as it has been in the past year. The hon. Gentleman refers particularly to the young unemployed. It was for them that we announced, and intend to introduce this autumn, the youth training programme with its comprehensive provision of training opportunities for all:16-year-olds and 17-year-olds without jobs. With regard to the Government's overall policy for Northern Ireland, our concern is evidenced by the £90 million of extra money provided beyond that planned for the coming financial year.

Mr. McCusker

Since these terrible figures are the result of 10 years of spending hundreds of millions of pounds, is it not time that we asked ourselves whether we are spending this money wisely?

Mr. Butler

The hon. Gentleman should not put one and one together and make three. He is correct in saying that large sums of money have been poured into Northern Ireland over the past decade and previously. However, the main reason for the present high level of unemployment is the world recession. With regard to his positive suggestion, yes, we have to continue to examine whether the limited resources available are being used as efficiently as possible. I shall always welcome any suggestions about that from the hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends.

Mr. Nicholas Winterton

Will my hon. Friend give further considered understanding to the question raised by the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, Central (Mr. McNamara), who asked whether it would not be a good thing if British Shipbuilders would transfer some of its work to Harland and Wolff—which would provide much needed employment in Northern Ireland—and if the P and 0 order had gone to British Shipbuilders? Will my hon. Friend give that matter his full consideration because such a move would have guaranteed many hundreds of jobs at Harland and Wolff and would have been a great advantage to the Province?

Mr. Cryer

That is interfering in the private sector.

Mr. Butler

I appreciate that my hon. Friend has no shipbuilding capacity in his constituency. His suggestion would not be particularly welcome in Newcastle and other places around our coast where ships are built in British Shipbuilders' yards. I do not think that the intervention that he asked for would be justified, because it would be at the expense of jobs in British Shipbuilders.

Mr. Winterton

No.

Mr. Butler

The type of work for which Harland and Wolff is best suited is not the sort of work that British Shipbuilders has on order at the moment.

Mr. Fitt

Does the Minister agree that the figure of 112,000 is not the true figure of unemployment in Northern Ireland? The trade unions and those associated with them are only too well aware that thousands of people do not sign the unemployed register because they do not qualify for benefit. Therefore, the figure of 112,000 is the absolute minimum. Has the Minister been advised by his economic advisers in Northern Ireland that over the next five years the figure for unemployment there is liable to reach 130,000? Are there any positive steps that he can take to prevent that happening?

Mr. Butler

There are people who do not work but who are not registered as unemployed, but it has been accepted for many years that the only way to examine unemployment figures and compare previous experience is to take those who are registered. I am not prepared to react to the hon. Gentleman's forecast except to remind him that there were many gloomy forecasts for this time of year—125,000 unemployed or more was forecast by consultants. I am glad to say that, however bad the figures, they have fallen considerably short of that gloomy forecast.

Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson

Does my hon. Friend agree that investment is one way of reducing unemployment, and since the Republic of Ireland seems to be more successful in attracting investment than Northern Ireland, is he satisfied that the investment incentives offered in the North are at least comparable with those in the South?

Mr. Butler

Investment incentives are not identical and there are limitations on what we can offer in Northern Ireland, particularly in the way of special tax incentives that would not necessarily be available in the United Kingdom. However, an independent survey suggested that the whole package of incentives available in Northern Ireland is among the best in Europe. We must take confidence from that. The main single reason why we do not have the investment that we need in Northern Ireland is the perception among would-be investors of the security problems and the general lack of stability in the Province.

Mr. Soley

Does the Minister realise that what he has said today will be considered by the people of Northern Ireland to be pathetic platitudes? Everybody in Northern Ireland recognises that the base of the Northern Ireland economy is collapsing beyond repair. Even the CBI asked for more public money to be put into construction and new technology. To talk of £90 million put back in when the Government took so much away previously is nonsense. When will the Government put effective public money in, even along the lines advocated by the Northern Ireland CBI?

Mr. Butler

I cannot see that £90 million, additional to what is already being spent, is in any way pathetic. The hon. Gentleman should realise that the expenditure per head in Northern Ireland is much greater than in any other region in the United Kingdom. That is a reflection of the Government's concern about the difficulties.