HC Deb 24 February 1982 vol 18 cc844-5
4. Mr. David Marshall

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether, in view of the fact that over 35,000 houses in Glasgow suffer from dampness, he will make special additional resources available to Glasgow in order to tackle this problem.

Mr. Rifkind

I am aware of the serious problems facing Glasgow and other authorities. The cost of treating houses affected by dampness was a factor to which special weight was given in setting the provisional allocations for 1982–83.

Mr. Marshall

The Government treat the matter so seriously that the Secretary of State and the Minister would not meet representatives of the Glasgow anti-dampness campaign or visit damp houses in Glasgow. Will the Minister now give the problem the priority that it deserves and come to Glasgow to see for himself the extent of the problem and the way in which housing standards are being undermined by dampness? Will he provide the extra money needed for Glasgow?

Mr. Rifkind

The hon. Gentleman is being extremely unfair. We were unable to meet representatives of that organisation on the day that they were in London. I visited one area of Glasgow, as the guest of the Glasgow district council, to look at the problems of dampness. That was one of the first duties that I undertook when I became a Minister. When we calculated Glasgow's supplementary allocation a couple of months ago we included an extra £2½million specifically to deal with dampness.

Mr. Grimond

If the Minister wishes to experience real dampness, he should come to Orkney and Shetlands. Does he agree that one way of dealing with the problem is to make extra social service payments available to the poorer people who have to sleep in damp houses in an extremely damp and cold climate?

Mr. Rifkind

The right hon. Gentleman does the House a service by pointing out that the problem is not limited to the major conurbations. Government funds are available to help people to pay their heating bills.

Mr. McQuarrie

I accept what my hon. Friend said about the 35,000 houses in Glasgow, but is he aware that there are more than 150,000 houses in Scotland, covering all the local authorities, that are built to Parker Morris standards? Does he agree that the stage has been reached when there should be a complete investigation into the problems of dampness in Scottish houses so that local authorities may give help to relieve the misery?

Mr. Rifkind

A number of investigations have taken place in the last few years. They have provided a great deal of useful technical information on the best means of tackling the problem. In response, the Government have not only taken major steps to make the information available to local authorities, but have, for the first time, made it a major consideration in determining allocations to local authorities for housing programmes.

Mr. Millan

The Minister has acknowledged that we are discussing a serious problem which affects the whole of Scotland, not just Glasgow. Is he aware that the Glasgow district council has already announced that, unless there is a generous settlement by the Government to deal with freeze damage, a large proportion of the money set aside for remedial work to cure dampness will have to be used to repair freeze damage? Is he further aware that the people now living in extremely insanitary conditions will have to live in those conditions for that much longer?

Mr. Rifkind

That was said by the Glasgow district council when it was thought that the cost of the damage would be between £20 million and £30 million. The latest estimate is that it will cost only £13 million. Government help depends upon the proportion of expenditure that is non-insurable. The evidence that we are now receiving from Glasgow shows that a proportion of its expenditure is likely to have been non-insurable and will, therefore, be eligible for Government grants. We have made it clear all along that if it was not insurable, consistent with the circular it would be possible to give help.

Mr. Milan:

What percentage was non-insurable?

Mr. Rifkind

The matter is being discussed by Scottish Office officials and the Glasgow council. It is not possible to give a specific figure, but it will be a significant proportion. I cannot say what the precise amount will be.