HC Deb 23 December 1982 vol 34 cc1051-3
1. Sir John Biggs-Davison

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what progress has been made with the full implementation of the Northern Ireland Act 1982.

4. Mr. Arnold

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will make a statement about constitutional developments in Northern Ireland.

5. Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement about developments at the Northern Ireland Assembly.

The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. James Prior)

Since I last answered questions the Assembly has approved its own Standing Orders and a number of debates have taken place, two of which have been attended by Ministers. After the Christmas Recess the Assembly will have the opportunity to get down to the important task of scrutinising direct rule.

Sir John Biggs-Davison

I wish my right hon. Friend a very happy Christmas, which we are delighted that he is to spend in Northern Ireland, as is entirely right and proper. Are not the Presiding Officer's appointments of Chairmen and Deputy Chairmen of Committees of the Northern Ireland Assembly invalid under the Northern Ireland Act? If they are not, do they not make nonsense of the 70 per cent. provision for devolution proposals?

Mr. Prior

I do not think that they have any reference to the 70 per cent. proposals for devolution. If there is controversy about whether the Presiding Officer was in a proper relationship to the law in making the appointments, that is for the Assembly to discuss. I regret that there has been disagreement among the parties, but I believe that it is for the Assembly to work this out for itself. I hope that it will do so quickly.

Mr. Arnold

Will civil servants from Northern Ireland Departments be encouraged to appear before Committees of the Assembly?

Mr. Prior

Yes, very much so, and we hope that they will.

Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson

As the chairmanship of Committees is supposed to reflect the balance of parties in the Assembly, but at least two of the parties elected are not present at the Assembly, what guidance will my right hon. Friend give to the Presiding Officer to ensure that that balance, or whatever balance is possible, can be achieved?

Mr. Prior

I do not think that it is for me to give guidance to the Presiding Officer. It is important that this House should not interfere in the workings of the Assembly. In so far as two parties are not yet taking part in the Assembly and therefore the balance cannot be absolutely sustained, I understand that the Presiding Officer has said that he will make necessary dispositions as regards Committees as represented by the parties at present in the Assembly, but there would have to be changes in the dispositions if the other parties at any time took their seats.

Mr. McCusker

Does the Secretary of State recall that in the White Paper published before the Bill specific reference was made to the fact that the Presiding Officer should have consultations with the parties before appointing Chairmen? Exactly what procedures did the Secretary of State have in mind?

Mr. Prior

I should have thought that they would be the normal consultations that would take place on these occasions.

Mr. McCusker

Here?

Mr. Prior

Not here, but with the Assembly. I should hope very much that the parties in the Assembly and the Presiding Officer will have such consultations.

Mr. R. C. Mitchell

Will the Secretary of State continue his efforts to try to persuade the SDLP to take part in the Assembly?

Mr. Prior

Yes, but I believe that those most likely to persuade the SDLP to take part are the Unionist Members of the Assembly. I urge them to do all that they can, in the interests of peace in Northern Ireland, to recognise that there are two traditions and identities and that unless both are properly represented in the Assembly there will not be peace or political stability.

Mr. Peter Robinson

Will the Secretary of State take it from me that considerable progress has been made in the Assembly not only in agreeing the Standing Orders and in having three ministerial appearances—not two, as the Secretary of State said—but in setting up the Committees and in the fact that public hearings have already been arranged? As the Assembly will be turning its mind in the new year to the second stage of the 1982 Act—the possibility of further devolved powers—will the Secretary of State expand on the statement that he made in this House on Friday 10 December when he said that it was possible to have devolution without power sharing at Cabinet level?

Mr. Prior

I cannot do during Question Time what the hon. Gentleman suggested in the latter part of his question, but there will be other opportunities to do so. There are other methods by which we can achieve a measure of devolution without it necessarily being a power sharing or Executive formula.

The Assembly has made some progress. It is proving of great use and interest to the people of Northern Ireland, and that was evident yesterday when my hon. Friend the Minister of State attended the Assembly. I urge those who are sceptical about the Assembly to give it a chance. I do not believe that the right hon. Member for Down, South (Mr. Powell) and some of his hon. Friends are doing a service to Northern Ireland by continuing to seek to undermine what most of the people of Northern Ireland desperately deserve and desire.

Mr. Concannon

I should like to see the SDLP and others participate in the Assembly and make use of it on behalf of the people they represent. That would ensure that it received the cross-community support that we all seek. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that had he accepted our amendments when the Bill was going through the House there would have been a better chance of these people accepting their seats in the Assembly?

Mr. Prior

We argued about that at the time. I believe that I met in spirit and in law the need to ensure that there is widespread acceptance throughout the community before there can be any move towards devolved Government. In the interests of peace and political stability, I hope that we can now start to make some progress.