§ 16. Mr. McNallyasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what proposals he has for talks with the new Government of Spain concerning the future of Gibraltar.
§ Mr. PymI met the Spainish Foreign Minister in Brussels on 10 December and discussed with him the implementation of the 1980 Lisbon agreement. This provides for the lifting of Spanish restrictions on Gibraltar and, at the same time, the start of negotiations aimed at overcoming all the differences between Britain and Spain on Gibraltar. We agreed that officials should meet to consider details with a view to implementation of the agreement in the spring.
§ Mr. McNallyDoes the right hon. Gentleman agree that the opening of the border by the new Government in Spain needs a response from Britain and some new imaginative ideas, perhaps on economic co-operation, trade and tourism, which show that we are thinking about Gibraltar's long-term future, perhaps involving in the negotiations representatives of the Gibraltarian people themselves?
§ Mr. PymNo, Sir. The partial opening of the border between Spain and Gibraltar was a gesture by the incoming Spanish Government. When we met we agreed that there was nothing further to be said about the matter at this stage, but that we would undertake preliminary discussions with a view to implementing the Lisbon agreement next year. That covers the point made by the hon. Gentleman.
§ Mr. Home RobertsonIs the Foreign Secretary aware how much we welcome the decision by the new Socialist Government in Spain and the new Prime Minister, Felipe Gonzalez, to reopen the frontier, even partially? Is he further aware that the statement this morning by the Prime Minister of Spain implies a more relaxed attitude on the vexed issue of sovereignty? Will the Government endeavour to build on these constructive and apparently conciliatory attitudes displayed by the Spanish Government?
§ Mr. EnglishI am sure that the Foreign Secretary will agree that Spain is more likely to achieve its objective by encouraging the transit of Spanish and British citizens between Spain and Gibraltar. Will the right hon. Gentleman also help by setting up tripartite discussions between Spain, Britain and Morocco, as, clearly, the position of Ceuta is similar to that of Gibraltar? Spain has about as much right in Morocco as we probably have in Gibraltar.
§ Mr. PymOn the first point, it is in the long-term interests of the people in Gibraltar and Spain that they should grow in friendship and work together. When the frontier is opened in due course, that should open the way to that process. With regard to the hon. Gentleman's second point, I have no intention of opening such tripartite talks at present. We shall take one step at a time.
§ Sir John Biggs-DavisonAre we still bipartisan on Gibraltar, or did the right hon. Member for Bristol, South-East (Mr. Benn) speak for his party when he said that Spain should reoccupy Gibraltar?
§ Mr. ChapmanOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I am sorry to detain the House. This is my maiden point of order. A fortnight ago I tabled a question for answer by the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. Because this is the hon. Gentleman's maiden point of order, he is probably not aware that I take points of order of that character after any application under Standing Order No. 9.
§ Sir Anthony MeyerOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I take points of order after applications under Standing Order No. 9.