HC Deb 27 October 1981 vol 10 c713
11. Mr. Neubert

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what is the most recent evidence he has received on the comparative performance in terms of examination achievements of comprehensive and grammar schools.

Sir Keith Joseph

Evidence shows that grammar schools as a whole have better examination results than comprehensive schools as a whole. This is not surprising, because grammar schools are selective and comprehensive schools are not. All of us must be concerned that more and more comprehensive schools should have as good results as some comprehensive schools already have.

Mr. Neubert:

Does my right hon. Friend share my concern that the rising curve of examination successes in 1971 seems to have been halted by the introduction of universal comprehensive education and that the abolition of the 11-plus, with over-large schools and mixed ability teaching, means that the education system increasingly fails to produce the right results? Would we not, as a country, do better if we maintained as wide a range of education as possible?

Sir Keith Joseph

I agree with both propositions. The simultaneous destruction of direct grant schools and grammar schools, while comprehensive schools were installed as near universities as Labour Governments found possible without experiment, was tragic in educational and human terms.

Mr. Robert C. Brown

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that as long as independent, direct grant and grammar schools, in that pecking order, cream off the brightest children, the examination results must be in that order, too?

Sir Keith Joseph

That is precisely what I explained in my main answer.