§ 7. Mr. Ennalsasked the Secretary of State for Social Services how many nurses are now registered as unemployed; how this figure compares by numbers with three, six, nine and 12 months ago; and what percentage increase these figures represent over the same periods of time.
§ Mr. FowlerThe Department of Employment provides quarterly returns on the number of nurses and midwives registered as unemployed. On the basis of those returns the information requested is as follows: at 30 September 1981, 5,311 qualified nurses and midwives were registered as 741 unemployed in England; at 30 June 1981, 4,644; at 31 March 1981, 4,499; at 31 December 1980, 4,351; at 30 September 1980, 3,932. These figures represent corresponding percentage increases of 14.4, 3.2, 3.4 and 10.7.
I am glad to tell the House that, since the Government took office, the number of qualified nurses and midwives employed in the National Health Service has increased by about 11 per cent.
§ Mr. EnnalsIs the Secretary of State aware that the Department of Employment's figures show that there are now more than 14,000 nurses unemployed—43 per cent. above the position 12 months ago, and three times as many as when the Government came to power? In the light of the pressure that is now being put on the National Health Service, is not that disgraceful?
§ Mr. FowlerThe best thing that I can do is to compare the figures for the period when the right hon. Gentleman was Secretary of State with the position now. In March 1979 the number of qualified nursing and midwifery staff employed was 192,000. The number now is 213,000—an increase of about 21,000 in this Government's period of office.
§ Mr. JesselIs my right hon. Friend aware that thousands of trained nurses cannot be employed because they have injured their backs lifting patients? Is he further aware that 750,000 working days are lost each year because of that? If I write to him, will he see what can be done to step up preventive measures?
§ Mr. FowlerI shall do that even if my hon. Friend does not write to me. We are aware of the problem and have commissioned a research project at Surrey university, which we are financing.
§ Mr. PavittIs the Secretary of State aware that the cuts over the last two years mean that area health authorities have put cash limits on the employment of nurses and that that is having a diabolical effect on specialties? Nurses are working overtime at weekends merely because there is not sufficient cash to employ those who are available and could be employed.
§ Mr. FowlerI do not think that the hon. Gentleman could have been listening to what I said. There are now more, not fewer, nurses employed. I am not sure what the hon. Gentleman was talking about when he mentioned the cuts. Over the last two and a half years we have protected and increased spending on the National Health Service in real terms by 5 per cent.
§ Mrs. DunwoodyWhy does the Secretary of State persist in saying that, when he knows that by applying rigid cash limits he has made certain that, with rising inflation, which is not included in his calculations, there will be a cut in resources?
§ Mr. FowlerAs usual, the hon. Gentleman is talking nonsense. [HON. MEMBERS: "Withdraw."] Withdraw that? Not on your life!
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. Hon. Members must give the Minister a chance. Then we shall see how we get on.
§ Mr. FowlerI called the hon. Lady an hon. Gentleman. I undoubtedly and unreservedly withdraw that. But the hon. Lady is still talking nonsense. Why does 742 she not recognise—surely it is a matter of agreement between both sides of the House—that the Government should be congratulated on the fact that there are now more, not fewer, nurses working in the NHS?
§ 8. Mr. Hal Millerasked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he is satisfied that the nurses rules provide a sufficiently impartial and equitable base for the hearing of disciplinary complaints against nurses.
§ Dr. VaughanYes, Sir. The rules provide for a full, impartial hearing of disciplinary complaints against nurses under the rules of evidence.
§ Mr. MillerDoes my hon. Friend accept that my constituent, Mrs. Wilshire, has a keen sense of injustice following her hearing before the committee on a number of charges that were the responsibility of others who have not been similarly proceeded against? Is he aware that she was physically incapable of committing one of the charges? Is he further aware that the proceedings were conducted in the nature of a prosecution by the medical profession? Should there not be an independent element?
§ Dr. VaughanIf my hon. Friend feels that there was a miscarriage of justice in that case, I should be pleased if he would contact me again. We are most concerned that these hearings should be not only just, but seen to be just by the persons involved.
§ Mr. Christopher PriceHas the Minister read the recent report from Social Audit about what happens to various nurses in psychiatric hospitals who make complaints about the conditions in those hospitals? They are frequently victimised for bringing to light scandals that should properly be brought to light. Does he remember the recent case at Broadmoor, where two nurses were victimised for bringing to light the fact that electro-convulsive therapy was being used in an unmodified way that was frowned upon by the Royal College of Psychiatrists, and still remain victimised by his Department as well as by others?
§ Dr. VaughanI cannot accept that there has been general victimisation in any way, as the hon. Gentleman implied. If there are individual cases where he feels that complaints have not been properly looked into, my right hon. Friend and I will be glad to hear about them. There is a well laid down procedure, which should be followed. If the hon. Gentleman believes that it is not followed, I should be glad if he would let me know.