External Security (Hansard, 18 November 1981)

§ 42. Mr. Spearing
asked the Lord Privy Seal if any topics relating to external security have been discussed in any European Economic Community Council.

§ Mr. Humphrey Atkins
The Ten have agreed to maintain the flexible approach that has made it possible to discuss in political co-operation certain important foreign policy questions bearing on the political aspects of security. The clearest example of this is the close cooperation between the Ten at the Conference on Security and Co-operation in Europe in Madrid over the question of the proposal for a conference on disarmament in Europe. Such questions have also been considered at meetings between Foreign Ministers, and at the European Council, but the Ten do not discuss the defence aspects of security, which are the business of NATO.

§ Mr. Spearing
Does not the Lord Privy Seal want it both ways? If there is no specific mandate to discuss security and defence measures under the Treaty of Rome, surely it is much more appropriate that they should be discussed entirely within the ambit of NATO, which has such a treaty commitment.

§ Mr. Atkins
No, Sir. That is wrong. I accept that under the treaty there is no such authority. That is why political co-operation is outside the treaty. Over a period of years it has been found that NATO—which is concerned specifically with defence questions—sometimes feels inhibited when it comes to talking about other matters. For example, I mentioned the CSCE in Madrid—which I know that the hon. Gentleman supports—and that is a matter where the Ten, meeting in political co-operation, have a very valuable contribution to make outside both the treaty and NATO.

§ Mr. Farr
As the EEC never was and never is likely to be a defensive unit, would it not be far better if all such discussions were left to members of NATO?

§ Mr. Atkins
I must give the same answer to my hon. Friend as I gave to the hon. Member for Newham, South (Mr. Spearing). NATO is concerned exclusively with the defence aspects of security. There are other aspects of a political nature that it is desirable for the ten member States of the EEC to talk about. For example, no hon. Member believes that it is wrong that the Ten should act together in Madrid.