HC Deb 10 November 1981 vol 12 cc405-6
3. Mr. Norman Atkinson

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will set out in detail the increased numbers of nuclear weapons installed by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics since acknowledgement of a nuclear parity between the Warsaw Pact and North Atlantic Treaty Organisation alliances at the conclusion of the SALT II talks.

The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr. John Nott)

The SALT II talks were concerned only with strategic nuclear weapons, and it is only at this level that broad parity was acknowledged as existing. Since the conclusion of the SALT II talks the number of United States warheads has remained approximately the same. The Soviet Union, on the other hand, has greatly modernised and increased the accuracy of its strategic systems by the deployment of new types of ICBM up to the full SALT II limits, increasing its total number of warheads by almost 1,000.

At the theatre level there is a considerable disparity in favour of the Warsaw Pact, and it has widened greatly. The United States has unilaterally removed 1,000 nuclear warheads from the European stockpile. There has been no similar response by the Soviet Union, which has already deployed 750 SS20 warheads and Backfire bombers, and is now introducing new SS21 and SS22 missiles, while still keeping in service its older aircraft and missiles.

Mr. Atkinson

If the Government are unwilling to join any nuclear disarmament talks until such time as they can proceed on the basis of parity between the Warsaw Pact countries and NATO, are not the implications of the Minister's answer quite horrifying from the point of view of the Western world? Are not the Government thus saying that they are not prepared to negotiate ever? If the escalation is now in step, side by side, there will never be parity, so are not the Government in effect saying that they do not foresee any time when they will enter into meaningful talks with the Soviet Union about nuclear disarmament?

Mr. Nott

It is certainly very serious to find that the number of strategic warheads deployed by the Soviet Union has increased by about 1,000 and that its modernisation programme for long-range theatre nuclear weapons has gone ahead in the way that I have described. The hon. Gentleman did not ask me about disarmament talks. The Government fully support and have taken part in the preparations for the theatre nuclear disarmament talks that open on 30 November. We have played a leading part in that and we have discussed with the United States and our other NATO Allies what the opening bid should be, in an attempt to achieve arms reductions. We are determined to achieve a reduction in arms.

Mr. Wilkinson

Does my right hon. Friend agree that one of the most awesome and fearsome aspects of Soviet preponderance is the extra megatonnage, the superiority in throw weight, power and destructiveness of the Soviet warheads compared with those of NATO?

Mr. Nott

My hon. Friend is right. Since SALT II the United States has more or less stood still, while the Soviet Union has increased the number, accuracy and throw weight of its warheads.

Dr. David Clark

Does not the Minister's answer about the build-up of strategic nuclear stockpiles on both sides highlight the need for disarmament talks now that SALT is in abeyance? Would it not be sensible for Britain to take the initiative and announce the postponement or cancellation of the Trident programme, which is just one more escalation?

Mr. Nott

The Trident programme has nothing whatever to do with the talks that are to open on 30 November. The talks concern long-range theatre nuclear weapons, while Trident is a strategic system. The Trident programme represents the absolute minimum force required for an independent deterrent. I hope that the strategic arms reduction talks between the United States and the Soviet Union will open next year. We are playing a major role in trying to get those talks going and to make them successful.

Mr. Bill Walker

Does my right hon. Friend agree that while the West—in particular the United States—has been meaningfully involved in detente, the Soviet Union has been building up its theatre capacity to an alarming level?

Mr. Nott

Taking capability as a guide, I estimate that in theatre nuclear weapons the Soviet systems currently outnumber ours by about four to one.

Mr. Duffy

Is not the most important aspect that the Secretary of State has not so far brought out the fact that, despite non-ratification of the treaty, neither side has undertaken any developments that would contravene SALT II? Does he agree that it is therefore vital that the Soviet Union and the United States should avoid any irreversible action and, preferably, take early steps to consolidate this regime?

Mr. Nott

The hon. Gentleman is right. So far as one can judge, neither side has breached SALT II. I agree, too, that we must get SALT started again. The talks have to be between the United States and the Soviet Union, but we shall do our best to encourage the United States to open the negotiations as soon as it is ready to do so.