HC Deb 12 May 1981 vol 4 cc608-10
10. Mr. Heddle

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what were the average ratios of pupils per qualified teacher in all maintained primary and secondary schools in each local education authority in England for the years 1978, 1979, 1980 and for the latest available date.

Dr. Boyson

I am pleased to tell the House that the ratio of pupils per qualified teacher in maintained primary and secondary schools in England improved consistently in each year from 1978–80. The information for 1981 is at present being collated. I shall arrange to send my hon. Friend statistical bulletins with the information for each local education authority.

Mr. Heddle

Although I eagerly await the figures for 1978 onwards, may I ask my hon. Friend whether he agrees that when those figures are published they will reflect a better pupil-teacher ratio than for any of the years that the Labour Party was in office.

Dr. Boyson

I confirm my hon. Friend's point. In January 1981 the overall pupil-teacher-ratio in England was 18.6:1. That is the lowest figure that has ever been achieved. In 1978, the pupil-teacher ratio was 19.7:1; in 1979 it was 19.4:1; in 1980, 18.9:1 and in 1981—the year with the lowest figure ever—18.6:1.

Mr. R. C. Mitchell

Does not the Minister realise that giving the figures for pupil-teacher ratios disguises what is happening in schools? Is he not aware that if a specialist teacher leaves a secondary school and is not replaced because of falling rolls, a subject is often dropped from the curriculum? Does not he accept that if one of eight members of staff in a primary school leaves, and there are only seven teachers for eight classes, the school either has to split up the years or accept a very large class? That is what is happening in schools. Does not the hon. Gentleman realise that?

Dr. Boyson

Like the hon. Gentleman, I am an ex-teacher. His subject was mathematics and I am told that he taught very well. [Interruption.] The figures are as accurate as the hon. Gentleman would accept when marking an exercise book. We have reduced the number of teachers by only half the drop in the number of pupils, because we are aware of the position. Since local education authorities and head teachers know that they have better pupil-teacher ratios, it is up to them to use the extra teachers in a way that will prevent such a situation from arising.

Mr. Thornton

Does my hon. Friend agree that the pupil-teacher ratio is not the only determinant of quality in our schools? The quality of teaching is far more important.

Dr. Boyson

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that question and comment. Indeed, I agree with him. In 1977, under the Labour Government, 37 per cent. of those accepted in colleges of education did not have O-level mathematics and 5 per cent. did not have O-level English. The fact that colleges of education are accepting only those with O-levels in English and maths and two A-levels will do more for teacher training that 100 Royal Commissions.

Mr Christopher Price

Is the hon. Gentleman attempting to contradict the evidence of Her Majesty's Inspectorate? Is he aware that the chief inspector said that it would be a miracle if the curriculum were maintained and gave the very reason that my hon. Friend the Member for Southampton, Itchen (Mr. Mitchell) outlined? What will the hon. Gentleman do to maintain the curriculum, as he has a duty to do under the Education Act 1944, if there are gaps in it as a result of falling school rolls?

Dr. Boyson

I am glad to assure the hon. Gentleman that the Conservative side of the House b believes in miracles. The degree of spiritual aspiration among Conservative Members is intense. The problem of the content of the curriculum has not arisen solely as a result of a recent report from Her Majesty's Inspectorate. For 10 to 15 years we have said that there has been a retreat from the basic curriculum. We have published documents which suggest that there should be a return to basic subects such as English, mathematics, history and geography. That will do more to show what should be taught in schools than anything that has been done for a long time.