Engagements (Hansard, 31 March 1981)

§ Q2. Mr. Heddle
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 31 March.

§ The Prime Minister
This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall be having further meetings later today. This evening I shall attend a reception given by the Indian high commissioner.

§ Mr. Heddle
During her busy day, will my right hon. Friend consider the position of public sector unions as well as the Civil Service unions? Does she agree that those who are responsible for providing essential services for the nation and who wish to achieve pay settlements in excess of those that are freely entered into in the private sector can do so only by entering into binding no-strike agreements?

§ The Prime Minister
With regard to Civil Service pay, 7 per cent. already exceeds what a number of people in the private sector will receive. With regard to the nationalised industries, there is undoubtedly great difficulty in applying the same disciplines to them as to companies that suffer from bankruptcy if they do not achieve competitive prices in the market. Most of us think that people should be paid for their work, and not for no-strike agreements. It is always possible to consider that. I would add one thing. Those whose service is vital to the well-being of the citizens should stick at their jobs.

§ Mr. Bidwell
Is the right hon. Lady aware that many trade union leaders tell us that even when they visit the House and attend meetings in her presence they are to be seen and not heard? What is the difficulty about their not crossing the picket line in the Civil Service dispute? It is a waste of time for them to see her at any time these days.

§ The Prime Minister
What absolute nonsense the hon. Member talks. When I take the chair at the NEDC the trade unions are vocal in what they wish to say. When about 40 of them come to see me, the difficulty is to persuade 37 of them to say anything at all.

§ Sir Paul Bryan
Will the Prime Minister find time today to congratulate those responsible for securing the biggest export order in British history—the order for the Castle Peak B station in Hong Kong? Will she say what that means to this country in terms of employment? Will she tell the British industrialists that that order, following the earlier vast order for the Castle Peak A station and the equipment for the mass transit railway, shows what opportunities there are in Hong Kong for British business men?

§ The Prime Minister
The order is worth about £550 million. It is a major success for British industry, working with the Government, to have achieved the order for Castle Peak B, in addition to Castle Peak A. The order will provide between 5,000 and 7,000 jobs over the next seven years, many of them in assisted areas where they are most needed. All concerned are to be thoroughly congratulated on taking advantage of those opportunities.

§ Mr. Foot
Perhaps I might revert to the answers given by the right hon. Lady about the Civil Service dispute. If she is so certain of the Government's case, why are she and her colleagues so afraid to refer the matter to arbitration, as the unions have asked? Has the right hon. 150 Lady had time today to study the latest report of the CBI on the state of the British economy? Does that report accord with her view and that spread by her fellow Ministers that there is increasing evidence of an upturn in the economy?

§ The Prime Minister
The answer to the right hon. Gentleman's first question is that the Government have a duty to decide what the taxpayer can afford to pay public servants. The more money that goes on current expenditure, the less there is for capital expenditure. The more that goes on current expenditure, the more unemployment is created, because that money could otherwise be spent on vital capital projects. I hope that those in the Civil Service will remember that.
I have seen the CBI survey. The indications of an upturn to which the right hon. Gentleman referred come in the main from other forecasters and from the Central Statistical Office. In part they come from some of the CBI indicators, but otherwise they come from the independent indicators published by the Central Statistical Office, which gives the leading indicators, both long and short term.

§ Mr. Foot
Will the right hon. Lady tell us who are those other forecasters? Will she tell us specifically whether she agrees with the CBI's judgment, in its latest report, that the Budget reduced demand and increased business costs? Does she not think that that is a plain statement of fact?

§ The Prime Minister
The answer to that last question is "No, Sir". There was a good deal in the last Budget to relieve industry. There was a reduction in interest rates of a further 2 per cent. which is worth about £700 million over a year. There was a generous scheme for stock relief, and further relief for big users of fuel in industry. The latest outside forecasts from the NIESR, the London Business School, Phillips and Drew, and the Central Statistical Office indicators—long-term, coincident and short term—all suggest either a levelling out by the spring or an upturn.

§ Mr. Foot
Does the right hon. Lady not appreciate that the report from the CBI, which she says she has read, takes into account those factors and still arrives at the conclusion that I suggest, namely, that unemployment will be increased rather than reduced by the Budget? Is the right hon. Lady really trying to tell the country that the CBI consists of a group of liars?

§ The Prime Minister
Of course not. I deeply resent the fact that the right hon. Gentleman chooses to say that. The Budget will not increase unemployment. What is more likely than anything else to increase unemployment is people taking out more for themselves, regardless of the effect on others.

§ Q3. Mr. John Carlisle
asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 31 March.

§ The Prime Minister
I refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave some moments ago.

§ Mr. Carlisle
Is my right hon. Friend aware that Vauxhall Motors in Luton, having been on a one-day working week for several months, is now moving to a four-day week and full production? Does she agree that that shows the confidence which several businesses, large and small, are showing in the Government's economic strategy?

§ The Prime Minister
The answer to my hon. Friend is of course "Yes, Sir". Some companies are being realistic and making themselves competitive. They are the ones that will receive orders and be able to offer future and sound job prospects. Vauxhall is not alone in that. Some of the best news that we have had is the Hong Kong order, which will provide many jobs, and which was won because of the efficiency of these companies and the help given by the Government.

§ Mr. David Steel
Will the Prime Minister find time to have a word with the Secretary of State for Social Services about the important decision that he has taken to appeal against the award by a medical tribunal of a mobility 152 allowance to the parents of an autistic child? In this International Year of Disabled People, is she aware that it would be greatly appreciated if she took a personal interest in a matter that concerns so many people?

§ The Prime Minister
I shall have a word with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, but I expect that he took the decision on legal advice.

§ Sir Anthony Kershaw
Whatever discussions my right hon. Friend has with the NEDC, will she take no notice of the opinions of the 364 economists, whose various opinions have been tried and have failed?

§ The Prime Minister
I thought that the 364 economists did more damage to themselves than to anyone else.