HC Deb 23 June 1981 vol 7 cc122-4
3. Mr. Canavan

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what has been the total cost to his Department of operations in Northern Ireland since 1969.

The Under-Secretary of State for the Armed Forces (Mr. Philip Goodhart)

Accurate information on this subject is not avilable. Departmental records have been kept on an extra cost, not a total cost basis, and the extra cost figure is approximately £600 million. On 26 February I wrote to the hon. Member for Sheffield, Hillsborough (Mr. Flannery), explaining some of the problems involved in determining total cost figures for the Armed Forces in any part of the United Kingdom and suggested that the most reasonable estimate of the total cost of the armed forces in Northern Ireland in 1980–81 could be £250 million. Perhaps the most reasonable estimate of the figure that the hon. Gentleman asks for—again surrounded by caveats and disclaimers—is 12 times £250 million at current prices.

Mr. Canavan

Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the growing public concern about the hundred of millions of pounds of public money that is being spent on a military operation that has now lasted longer than both world wars put together and which has failed to achieve its objective? Bearing in mind that thousands have been killed or injured since 1969, is not it clear that there cannot be a purely military solution to the problem of Northern Ireland? Will the Government consider a phased withdrawal of troops combined with the necessary political initiatives designed to bring about a peaceful reunification of the whole of Ireland?

Mr. Goodhart

No one has ever suggested that there could conceivably be a completely military solution to the problems of Northern Ireland. In the past 12 years there has been a growing recognition that the Armed Forces have played a magnificent role in upholding law and order and that, if they were to be withdrawn, that would be a calamity for both communities in Northern Ireland.

Mr. J. Enoch Powell

Has any effort been made to assess the extra costs which would have been incurred if the same force had been stationed in another theatre? Would not such extra costs have been substantial if, for example, those forces had been on the Continent?

Mr. Goodhart

That is true. The cost probably would have been in excess of the £600 million extra cost since 1969.

Sir John Biggs-Davison

Has any estimate been made of the cost in blood and treasure if Her Majesty's forces had not been there to assist the civil power?

Mr. Goodhart

I have no doubt that at times there would have a been a civil war and the cost of that would have been incalculable.

Mr. Wellbeloved

Does not the Minister agree that no cost evaluation can be put on the lives of British soldiers who have been murdered by the IRA and that the least we can do in the House is honour their sacrifice by ensuring that none of the murderers of those soldiers can succeed in seeking to gain election to the House of Commons?

Mr. Goodhart

I wholly agree with the hon. Gentleman. I might almost call him my hon. Friend.

Mr. Kilfedder

Does not the Minister agree that it would be in the interests of the Iron Curtain countries for the Provisional IRA to succeed in creating terrorism and destruction, and failure of law and order in part of the United Kingdom. and that the forces of the Crown are to be congratulated on preventing the IRA from succeeding? Is it not in the interests of all NATO countries to prevent the IRA from succeeding?

Mr. Goodhart

I join in those congratulations. I am sure that the overwhelming majority of the House does so, to.