Lecturers

HC Deb 16 June 1981 vol 6 cc852-4

11. Mr. Nicholas Winterton

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what is the current strength of lecturers in (a) United Kingdom universities and (b) United Kingdom polytechnics; how this compares with their respective strengths in the 1979–80 academic year; and if he will make a statement.

Dr. Boyson

In 1979–80 there were 34,250 full-time academic staff at United Kingdom universities and 17,395 full-time teaching staff at the polytechnics. Comparable figures for the current academic year are not yet available. However, for the polytechnics in England and Wales, there are 16,722 full-time teaching staff in the current academic year compared with 16,847 in 1979–80.

Mr. Winterton

Will not my hon. Friend agree that the picture is not as bleak as that painted by the Opposition and some within the education profession? The ratio of lecturer to student in the universities is still far better than applies in most other Western countries. Will not he agree that there is room in higher education for the necessary expenditure cuts, particularly in the humanities, social sciences and allied courses, which seem to have no relevance to the real needs of the country?

Dr. Boyson

The student-staff ratio in universities is one of the lowest in the world. In universities there are only 9.3 students per member of staff. In polytechnics, there are only 8.5 students per member of staff. I believe that the figures this year may even be lower. I believe that there can be rationalisation of courses, so that the courses have full numbers. If there was one more student per member of staff, that would cover the whole 8½ per cent. cuts that we need over three years.

Mr. Hooley

Is it now the intention of the University Grants Committee to issue directives to universities to the effect that they must close certain departments to cut staff?

Dr. Boyson

The University Grants Committee gives advice, as it has always done. At a time of expansion, academics did not want to come under direct Government control. That is why the University Grants Committee was originally started. I believe it dates back to 1919. Similarly, at a time of cuts, I am sure that most academics—this has been indicated by vice-chancellors—would prefer decisions to be made by the University Grants Committee and not by the Department of Education and Science.

Mr. Henderson

Will my hon. Friend say what the trend is in staff-student ratios over a longer period—perhaps up to 10 years? What proportion of the staff has security of tenure?

Dr. Boyson

The student-staff ratio has increased by 10 per cent. over the past 10 years. I suggested that a similar improvement in the number of students per member of staff over the coming years would meet the problem. I believe that about 80 or 90 per cent. of staff have tenure, often up to the age of 67. If one compares Britain with other countries, it appears that tenure is given more easily and at a lower level here than almost anywhere else in the world. The matter of tenure will have to be looked at by universities.

Mr. Christopher Price

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that our staff in higher education will not be reassured until the Government make known their plans for the future financing and organisation of the public sector of higher education? Is he aware that it is now eight months since the Select Committee issued its report? When will the Government bring forward their plans for the organisation and financing of the public sector of higher education?

Dr. Boyson

I realise the importance of the hon. Gentleman's question. The Government are trying to control the maintained sector by means of some national body, and to do it by agreement. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman, as chairman of that Select Committee, agrees that it is far better to do it by agreement with local authorities than to do it by forcing through legislation against the wishes of local authorities. If we get it right, it will be to everyone's advantage.

Mr. Whitehead

Does the Under-Secretary realise that, if we have had satisfactory staff-student ratios in our universities and polytechnics, that is something that we would expect the Department of Education and Science to defend, not destroy? Will he say, in connection with the UGC's proposals to universities, what it will cost in additional and wasteful public expenditure to buy out academic tenure in the way that he has threatened today?

Dr. Boyson

When I referred to tenure, I was talking about long-term tenure. The problem of tenure would have faced the Labour Party, had it been in power. It is a matter of not taking people on at too early an age or too low a level and giving them tenure until the age of 67. Decisions in that regard should be made by universities themselves freely. That compares favourably with the position in many other countries. People will not have vast sympathy, when they see the problems of unemployment elsewhere and find that these people have tenure of 40 years. After all, that tenure was given when there were small groups of dons in universities. We have 10 times as many students in higher education now as we had in 1945, and 10 times as many staff. Tenure was introduced originally to preserve academic excellence in research, which may not be being done everywhere now.