PARENT-TEACHER ORGANISATIONS (Hansard, 8 June 1981)

§ Mr. Maxton
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Although I attach some importance to the new clause, it is not the most important issue before us. I hope that we shall not have to spend as much time on it as we have spent on some of the other measures. The clause is very much in line with what the Government claim to be the Bill's underlying philosophy, namely, that parents should have a choice in education. That implies that parents should have a say in education. In Committee my hon. Friends and I stressed that we were more concerned about parental involvement in education than about the spurious element of parental choice.
The Government are offering a choice that is open only to a few parents. I refer to the better-off parents and not to the majority of those whom Labour Members represent. Those who are less well-off will not have a genuine choice. I hope that the Government will agree that parents should be involved and play an active part in their children's schools. It would be perfectly legitimate for the Government to support that idea. Parents should be part and parcel of the school system and of their children's education.
The clause seeks to lay an obligation on every education authority to ensure that every school has a parent-teacher association. The Minister may say that some parents might not be interested in forming a parent-teacher association. 208 In Scotland local authorities are obliged to have certain statutory bodies. However, if, for example, parents do not want to be represented on a school council, that is a matter for them. It remains the local authority's obligation to ensure that there are school councils. The same applies to community councils. The local authority is under an obligation to ensure that there are community councils, but if no one comes forward to form such a council there will not be one.
A duty should be imposed on local authorities to ensure that, where possible, parent-teachers associations are set up. I checked carefully with the Department and found that at present schools are not obliged to have parent-teacher associations or other organisations. I am told that less than 50 per cent. of schools have such organisations. Therefore, even if the parents want a say they will not have one in 50 per cent. of schools. I know from personal experience that headmasters and teachers sometimes—perhaps often—say that they want nothing to do with such associations. If they say that, parents cannot get access to the schools. They could form a parents' association, but that would not give them the access to teachers and to head teachers that a parent-teacher association gives them. Therefore, they cannot participate in school life as parents should do.
I hope that the Minister will accept the basic concept of the clause. He may have reservations about the wording. He may wish to qualify it a little. I hope, however, that he will accept the basic concept if he believes in parental choice and involvement in children's education. This is one small way in which he can ensure that parental involvement is a little wider and involves more parents than the small number who would be involved in what he terms parental choice under the Bill.

§ Mr. O'Neill
We on the Opposition Front Bench welcome the clause. We feel that there is a considerable amount of evidence in support of it. Research work carried out by Glasgow university concerning parent-teacher associations and school councils suggested that PTAs have a great deal to contribute. We feel that they should be encouraged, because there are still many schools that do not have either PTAs or parents' associations. The survey by the Scottish Parent-Teacher Council in 1978 suggested that out of 1,364 Scottish schools only about 481 had either PTAs or parents' associations.
It is true to say that throughout the 1970s there has been something of an explosion among parent-teacher associations. We welcome this development. We believe that when the Minister returns to the theme of parental involvement with schools it would be helpful to have in this legislation a clause that would impose an obligation on local authorities actively to promote such associations. We know that various bodies, such as the Pack committee, have stressed the need for good home-school relations and better discipline. It is said that if there were a good relationship between home and school there would be a better climate in school, from which youngsters could benefit.
I recognise that the Glasgow research to which I have referred makes the point that it is not in favour of legislative compulsion. We are not suggesting that. My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Maxton) made the point clearly that we are not seeking to compel or dragoon anyone into PTAs. Believing that they 209 are a good thing, however, we feel that it is incumbent upon the Government to encourage local authorities to act to promote them as best they can. We have no hesitation in supporting the clause and asking the Minister to look favourably upon it. I suspect that we shall not seek to vote upon it, because we do not think that it is a matter of great controversy.
This is a matter on which we would be interested to hear the Minister's views. We would be interested to know whether he has any plans to improve this side of parental involvement, because it seems that he has a very narrow focus in terms of his interpretation of parental involvement. We believe that there are occasions when parental involvement should be structured to play an important part in the life of the school. If the clause is imperfect we ask the Minister to look at it again and to give some support to whatever steps may be taken in another place to improve this non-controversial but highly desirable developmemt in Scottish education.

§ Mr. Alexander Fletcher
I listened carefully to what was said by the hon. Members for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Maxton) and for Clackmannan and East Stirlingshire (Mr. O'Neill). The hon. Member for Clackmannan and East Stirlingshire said that there was no question of compulsion, but by placing a duty upon an authority the clause is compelling it to ensure that a parent-teacher organisation is set up in each of its primary and secondary schools. The clause provides: It shall be the duty of every education authority to ensure that each primary school and each secondary school within its control shall have a parent-teacher organisation.

§ Mr. O'Neill
We said that we were not seeking to compel parents to be members of an association. We were seeking to impose upon local authorities the obligation to take seriously the possibility of setting up associations if there is a demand for them. If there is no demand for them they cannot be set up. We want local authorities to have a responsibility so to do.

§ Mr. Fletcher
I agree that we cannot compel parents, any more than we can compel teachers, to be members of a parent-teacher association. If one removes the compulsion, one still places upon local authorities a duty to set up PTAs in all their schools.
I note from the Glasgow university report, which was mentioned by the hon. Gentleman, that in Lothian region schools councils are explicitly responsible for the encouragement of PTAs and that that has produced a high rate of PTA involvement. Clearly there is nothing to prevent schools and school councils from being involved in that way, but we believe that it is best left to local initiative. There is no need for compulsion of any kind or for placing a duty on local authorities in that way. It is best left to local initiative, in the light of local needs. For that reason, we prefer the situation to remain as it is. I cannot recommend the new clause to my right hon. and hon. Friends.

§ Mr. Maxton
I shall briefly comment on the Minister's incredible reply. In the Bill the Government oblige local authorities to ensure that parents have a choice of school. Local initiative is being taken away from the elected local authorities. In the new clause I am seeking, in a small way, to place an obligation on local authorities to ensure that parents are involved on a much wider basis than the Government are suggesting, and the Minister says that it should be left to local initiative.
210 I should have been happier if the Minister had said that the new clause's wording was incorrect. I accept that it may contain too strong an element of compulsion and that it could have been worded more clearly. However, the Minister should take seriously the issue of parents' involvement in their children's education. Too often local initiative means that headmasters say "No", and that is it—there is no parent-teacher association. That is not good enough. It is not enough to say that teachers cannot be compelled. It can be put into teachers' contracts by negotiation that they should play a part in parent-teacher associations. As I said, it takes place in other countries.
However, I accept that the drafting of the clause is not entirely correct. Therefore, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.