HC Deb 03 June 1981 vol 5 cc994-8
Mr. Raison

I beg to move amendment No. 5, in page 3, line 19, leave out paragraph (b) and insert— `(b) that the parent in question was employed in relevant employment (but not necessarily the same relevant employment) throughout the period of two years ending with the date of the birth and was on that date employed in overseas employment; and'.

Mr. Speaker

With this we may also consider the following amendments:

Amendment (a) to the proposed amendment, after `employment)', insert 'either in the United Kingdom or overseas'.

Government amendments Nos. 6 to 8.

Amendment No. 9, in page 3, line 39, at end insert ', and (bb) with any association established outside the United Kingdom of which a company or association established in the United Kingdom has been a subscribing member for at least three years. '.

Government amendments Nos. 10 to 14.

Government amendment No. 15, in page 5, line 18, at end insert— `(8) For the purposes of subsection (3) a partner in a firm established in the United Kingdom is to be regarded as employed in employment with the firm, but a partner in a firm established outside the United Kingdom is not to be so regarded.'.

Amendment (a) to the proposed amendment No. 15, at end add 'unless such firm is a member of an association of which a United Kingdom firm is a member'.

Government amendments Nos. 49, 50, 66 and 67.

Mr. Raison

I undertook in Committee to consider sympathetically the possibility of making various changes in the arrangements in clause 3 which provide for British citizenship to be acquired, as an entitlement and on application, by a child born overseas to a parent who is a British citizen by descent and who has ties with this country through his or her employment. These amendments result from that undertaking, and I believe that they will meet the concerns that have been expressed by a number of people, including my hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge (Mr. Shersby).

It may be helpful if I explain in general terms what we have sought to do. First, in amendments Nos. 5, 6, 12 and 13 we have reduced the qualifying period of employment from five to two years and have enabled relevant employment in the United Kingdom or with more than one company or association in the United Kingdom or overseas to count towards the qualifying period. The Home Secretary will have discretion in special circumstances to reduce the period of relevant employment.

Secondly, in amendments Nos. 7, 8, 10, 14 and 15, we have sought to widen the categories of relevant employment. Employment with a company or association established outside the United Kingdom will now count where it has been arranged by a company or association established in the United Kingdom. So, in those circumstances, will employment overseas with a company or association which is associated with a company or association established in the United Kingdom. Partners in a company or association established in the United Kingdom will be able in suitable circumstances to meet the employment requirement.

Thirdly, in amendment No. 11, we have provided that brief intervals between posts in relevant employment shall not disqualify. Also, a woman will be deemed to be in relevant employment when her child is born, if she had been so employed within six months of the birth; the six-month period preceding the birth of the child will then count towards the qualifying period.

I believe that these amendments will substantially extend the ambit of the provisions in clause 3 which enable British citizens by descent who have ties with this country, mainly through their employment, to secure British citizenship for their children born overseas, as an entitlement on application. They are, we believe, an effective response to the concern that has been expressed, both in this House and outside it, about the need to ensure that people who have real ties with this country, particularly through the nature of their work, should be able to secure British citizenship for their children, since they are representing British interests when these children are born. These amendments will considerably extend the range of people who will now be able to apply for citizenship for their children in this way.

These amendments, too, must be seen in the general context of what we are doing in this Bill as a whole to help children born overseas to British citizens by descent. They should be seen together with the provisions of subsection (7), which enables children born overseas to British citizens by descent to acquire British citizenship when they come back to this country and live here with their families, and with the provisions of new clauses 1 and 2 which seek to preserve the effects of the current system of consular registration for a limited period. In all, this is a substantial programme of measures to benefit children born overseas to British citizens by descent—a programme which in many respects is more generous than the current arrangements. But it is only right that when families have a real and continuing tie with this country they should be entitled to secure British citizenship for their children born overseas.

Mr. Michael Shersby (Uxbridge)

I warmly welcome the amendments. They are vitally important to the Bill and they will bring considerable relief to many people who have been concerned about their circumstances. I welcome them because I, like other hon. Members, have given close attention to representations that have been made to me by employers, their employees and the CBI.

It is right that the qualifying period for employment overseas for the purpose of passing on citizenship should be shortened from five years to two. The change clearly goes some way to meet the objections of employers and their employees on this point. The new provisions, with subsection (3), also imply that the two-year qualifying period could be served in the United Kingdom, overseas, or partly in each. Thus employees would be able to have a child overseas at any time during the two-year qualifying period. I believe that my hon. Friend the Minister of State accepts this implication. However, it should be made explicit by inserting either in the United Kingdom or overseas after the brackets in clause 3(2)(b). I hope that my hon. Friend will accept my proposed amendment to his amendment No. 5, in the interests of clarity and to avoid any misunderstanding. If he cannot do that this evening, because of the severe shortage of time before 9 o'clock, I ask him to look at it again in another place.

I now come to my proposed amendment to Government amendment No. 15. The proposed subsection (8) to clause 3 provides that a partner in a firm established outside the United Kingdom is not in "relevant employment" for the purposes of the Bill.

The CBI has pointed out to me this week that many partners, that is, self-employed persons and their employees, who are British citizens and work overseas have, for local or commercial reasons, no formal connection with a firm based in the United Kingdom, although they are normally considered to be part of it. Although the CBI does not directly represent their employers, there is a strong feeling that neither partners nor employees should be discriminated against because of their employment status, as they are no less British.

The Government have already accepted this situation in relation to multinational companies which may also be established or incorporated independently overseas to fit in with national requirements, although the ultimate ownership may be elsewhere. The CBI takes the view, and I agree, that this point should logically and rightly be recognised in relation to partnerships and their employees. I hope that my hon. Friend will pay particular attention to partnerships in international firms of accountants, architects and other professional organisations—and not just to international trade associations—involving those on secondment or where there is a British member in membership.

To cover this point, my proposed amendment adds the words: unless such firm is a member of an association of which a United Kingdom firm is a member". I should perhaps have added: This shall also apply to employees of such firms who are also British citizens". I hope my hon. Friend will look at that point before the Bill is considered in another place.

I urge my hon. Friend to accept that amendment. If he does not, many people, including the CBI, feel that some British citizens working overseas will still unfairly lose their rights to possess and transmit British citizenship and to free entry and abode in the United Kingdom. These are two important improvements to my hon. Friend's amendments, and I hope that he will receive them sympathetically.

Mr. Raison

With the leave of the House, Mr. Speaker, I should like to reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge (Mr. Shersby). I will think about the first point he raised but would prefer not to give any undertaking.

My hon. Friend proposed, secondly, that amendment No. 15 should be altered to cover partners in firms established overseas if the firm is a member of an association of which a United Kingdom firm is a member. This is intended to benefit partners and firms which are independently established overseas but which may have links with this country.

However, in our view, the amendment is too broad to achieve its aim. It would benefit partners in firms established overseas which might quite by chance belong to an association to which a firm of partners in this country also belonged. The association might be purely social, and the fact that a firm of partners in the United Kingdom and a firm of partners overseas were both members of it might not mean that the overseas firm had any fills with the United Kingdom.

The amendment might make rather more sense if it referred to partners rather than to firms as it could then benefit, for instance, partners overseas who were members of United Kingdom professional bodies. However, it refers to firms and seeks essentially to cover partnerships overseas that are associated with partnerships in the United Kingdom because, for example, they have common partners. As I have said, the amendment is too wide to achieve that purpose effectively. It is not satisfactory for the reasons that I have explained.

Amendment agreed to.

9 pm

Mr. Speaker

I am now required to put the Question on any amendment up to the end of clause 12 moved by a member of the Government. The amendments are Nos. 6 to 8, 10 to 20, 22 and 24 and 27. Does any hon. Member wish to divide the House against any of the amendments? It seems that no one wishes to do so. That being so, I shall put them in a group if the Minister will move them.

Amendments made: No. 6, in page 3, line 31, leave out `Subsection (2) applies to' and insert 'In this section "relevant employment" means'.

No. 7, in page 3, line 35, leave out from 'Kingdom' to 'company' in line 37 and insert `where the employee's employment with that company or association was arranged by a'.

No. 8, in page 3, line 38, at end insert— `(bb) with any company or association established outside the United Kingdom which is associated with a company or association established in the United Kingdom;'.

No. 10, in page 3, line 40, after `therein', insert— 'or a company or association established in the United Kingdom'.

No. 11, in page 4, line 9, at end insert— `(4) For the purpose of subsection (2)(b)—

  1. (a) where, in the case of any person, two periods of relevant employment are separated by an interval of not more than 90 days spent otherwise than in relevant employment, he shall be treated as having been employed in relevant employment throughout the interval and, if he was employed in overseas employment immediately before the interval began, as having been employed in overseas employment throughout the interval; and
    2. 998
  2. (b) where the parent in question is the mother, then, if her last period of relevant employment before the birth ended in the period of 180 days ending with the date of tie birth, she shall be treated as having been employed in relevant employment throughout the period from the end of that period of relevant employment to the date of the birth and, if she was employed in overseas employment immediately before that period of relevant employment ended, as having been employed in overseas employment on the date of the birth;
and the requirements specified in subsection (2)(c) shall not apply in relation to any period which by virtue of this subsection counts as a period of relevant employment.'.

No. 12, in page 4, line 15, leave out 'five' and insert `two'.

No. 13, in page 5, line 2, leave out paragraphs (a) and (b) and insert— '(a) "overseas employment" means employment under the terms of which the employee ordinarily works outside the United Kingdom; and'.

No. 14, in page 5, line 9, leave out from `association' to end of line 18.

No. 15, in page 5, line 18, at end insert— '(8) For the purposes of subsection (3) a partner in a firm established in the United Kingdom is to be regarded as employed in employment with the firm, but a partner in a firm established outside the United Kingdom is not to be so regarded. —[Mr. Raison.]

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