British Gas Corporation (Hansard, 27 July 1981)

§ 14. Mr. Neubert
asked the Secretary of State for Trade what representations he has received following the announcement of the disposal of retail gas showrooms.

§ Mrs. Sally Oppenheim
Following my announcement on 8 July, my right hon. Friend received a number of representations from right hon. and hon. Members, members of the public and British Gas Corporation employees on the Government's decision, putting forward a number of differing points of view.

§ Mr. Neubert
Will my right hon. Friend agree that it is always predictable that any entrenched monopoly will defend itself tooth and claw, and so will the suppliers who batten on it for their own benefit? Will she agree that it makes no kind of sense to maintain expensive prime site High Street locations for the payment of bills that can be paid through the Post Office? If she cares to take similar action in regard to electricity showrooms and British Airways travel shops she will have my wholehearted support.

§ Mrs. Oppenheim
It is notable that electricity showrooms command 10 per cent. of the retail market, whereas British gas showrooms command over 90 per cent. of the retail market.
Accessibility is very important. The Government, in the context of their proposals, have made it clear that no solution that did not provide convenient accessibility for consumers to pay their bills, to buy stamps and to seek advice, would be acceptable to them. A number of options are being considered in this context.

Mr. Tom Ellis
Can the right hon. Lady confirm that on the day that she announced the Government's proposals about retail gas showrooms there were, as stated in the British Gas Corporation's annual report, more than twice as many privately owned showrooms as showrooms owned by the British Gas Corporation?

§ Mrs. Oppenheim
What is important in terms of competition is the share of the market, not the number of showrooms. The British Gas Corporation has a 90 per cent. share of the market. The number of showrooms is not important. What is important is the finding of the Monopolies and Mergers Commission that some BGC activities had harmed competition, limited choice and possibly put up prices, as well as debilitating the gas appliance manufacturing industry and rendering the jobs in that industry less secure than they might otherwise have been.

§ Mr. Edwin Wainwright
Why is the Minister not honest with the House? Is she aware—

§ Mr. Speaker
I am sure that the hon. Member did not mean to imply dishonesty. Will he re-word his question?

§ Mr. Wainwright
I am sorry, Mr. Speaker. Why is the Minister not more open with the House? Why does she not declare that it is the Government's intention to steer away from the nationalised industries the juicy parts of those industries, to ensure that the friends of the Government can make a profit, while leaving to the nationalised industries the general work of satisfying the needs of the people? Why are the Government taking other industries apart? Is it not true that the Government are taking Wytch Farm from the British Gas Corporation, now that it is—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. That subject will be debated later tonight.

§ Mrs. Oppenheim
I am prepared to be indulgent to the hon. Gentleman. He referred to the private sector making a profit out of the industry. I thought that the British Gas Corporation had always claimed that it made huge profits out of the retailing of appliances. That is by no means certain; indeed, it is not even likely. It is not the case in regard to a number of its activities.
Wytch Farm is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Energy.

§ Mr. Pollock
Is my right hon. Friend aware that the question of showrooms disposal will be regarded as w holly irrelevant by many of my constituents who find their interest in gas products stimulated by lavishly mounted television advertising campaigns extolling the wonders of gas but who later find that British Gas is either unable or unwilling to make available to them a supply of gas?

§ Mrs. Oppenheim
Having visited a gas showroom recently I was able to take note of the advertisements to which my hon. Friend refers. I noted also that a large majority of the people visiting the showroom and queueing up for attention were there to ask about the supply of gas and not the supply of appliances.

§ Mr. John Fraser
In view of the effect that the Minister's announcement in July had on the morale of staff, will she set aside her ideological obstinacy and go for a less radical solution that would be perfectly in keeping with the recommendations of the Monopolies and Mergers Commission?

§ Mrs. Oppenheim
The hon. Gentleman talks about ideological views. Would his party have viewed the report of the Monopolies and Mergers Commission as being not in the interests of consumers? Would his party put consumers' interests second to those of the British Gas Corporation?
The Government had several options to consider. They considered them very carefully over a fairly long period. They are consulting at every stage with the British Gas Corporation and with the unions concerned. I do not think that any Government could offer more than that, in view of the severe criticisms made by the Monopolies and Mergers Commission and its finding of operations adverse to the public interest.

§ Mr. Arthur Lewis
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Will you please look again at the point raised earlier when my hon. Friend the Member for Dearne Valley (Mr. Wainwright) started his remarks by speaking of an "honest reply"? As you will know, Mr. Speaker, very often hon. Members doubt whether a reply is honest in terms of facts and figures. There are always doubts whether a reply is an honest reply. I believe that one is not allowed to say that a Minister is being dishonest or is not telling the truth. I think that my hon. Friend the Member for Dearne Valley was about to say that the reply was not honest. I think that there is a difference. Will you look at the matter again, because figures can be twisted and sometimes we are given twisted figures? Governments of both major parties have done that.

§ Mr. Speaker
I am much obliged to the hon. Gentleman. I intervened because the hon. Member for Dearne Valley (Mr. Wainwright) asked the Minister to be honest. I thought that the implication was clear.