§ 2. Mr. Michael McNair-Wilsonasked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement about the security situation in the Province.
§ 4. Mr. Farrasked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the current security situation.
§ 18. Mr. Kilfedderasked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement about the security situation in the Province.
§ The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Humphrey Atkins)Between last May and early July the violent disturbances which occurred in some parts of the Province virtually died out. Not surprisingly, there has been some fresh rioting since the deaths of two more hunger strikers on 8 and 13 July, though not on the scale of that in April and May. The police and the Army have dealt effectively with these outbursts but have suffered a number of injuries in the process. One youth, one of a group in a vehicle loaded with petrol bombs which attempted to force its way past the guard at a bus depot, was shot dead by soldiers on 8 July. On 9 July a woman died from injuries sustained the day before, alleged to have been caused by a baton round. Another youth died of gunshot wounds after a shooting attack on the security forces who returned fire. These incidents are the subject of police investigation.
Yesterday, an explosion damaged a hotel in Belfast, and another near Newry damaged the railway line to Dublin. For the time being the line is closed.
Terrorist attacks over the last few weeks have continued at a higher level than in 1980, though there has been a noticeable reduction from the level experienced in May. Since I last answered questions on 18 June two people, one a policeman and the other a civilian, have lost their lives at the hands of terrorists. One of the most deplorable incidents of the period was a Provisional Irish Republican Army mortar attack on a security force base in a residential area of West Belfast, when people were intimidated into leaving their homes. The principal casualty was a six-year-old boy. This shows the regard of the Irish Republican Army for human life and human dignity. The Government and the security forces will continue their unrelenting efforts to bring to justice those who commit these dreadlul crimes.
§ Mr. McNair-WilsonDoes my right hon. Friend agree that there is now a certain commonality between the policing problems in Northern Ireland and those in England? In those circumstances, has he any plans for members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary to be appointed to the staff of the police training college at Bramshill? Will the fire resistant overalls which are to be made available to police on the mainland also be issued to the Royal Ulster Constabulary and to our troops in Northern Ireland in view of the danger that they run from attacks by fire bombs?
§ Mr. AtkinsIn the comparison between Northern Ireland and England, the terrorist element is, happily, missing in England in street disturbances. The Royal Ulster Constabulary and the Army have to face not only 1371 disturbances on the streets but determined men who are tying to use those disturbances for their own ends and to shoot, kill and maim the security forces.
As regards the expertise of the RUC, perhaps it is worth reminding my hon. Friend that the commandant of the police staff college at Bramshill is Sir Kenneth Newman, who for several years was the Chief Constable of the RUC. With regard to the protective clothing issued to the security forces in Northern Ireland, both the Chief Constable and the GOC tell me that they are satisfied with what they have, but, as I have often said, if they want any more material help of any sort they can have it.
§ Mr. FarrI thank my right hon. Friend for that reply, but does he agree that the recent visit by mainland chief officers of police to Northern Ireland pays a general tribute to the expertise that the RUC has acquired in recent years? Furthermore, does he also agree that recent operations by the security forces, particularly by the Army at the recent funeral when a firing party was seized, show great initiative, which has met with widespread approval and which should be commended by all concerned?
§ Mr. AtkinsYes, Sir. The recent visit by people from the Metropolitan Police force to Northern Ireland is part of the normal co-operation which is extended between one police force and another. The RUC is always ready to help in any way it can. I agree with my hon. Friend that the arrest of people at the recent funeral was a good exercise. As I have already said, decisions must be left to the judgment of the security commander on the spot. He exercised his judgment in this case with good results.
§ Mr. KilfedderWill the right hon. Gentleman send a message of congratulation to the President of the United States for rejecting the attempts by the Dublin Government to involve him on the side of the Provisional IRA terrorists? Will he deliver a protest to the Government in the Republic for its actions, which included putting the lives of the Provisional IRA and its political life before the lives of decent people in Northern Ireland?
§ Mr. AtkinsI note what the hon. Gentleman says, but I must tell him that communications between Governments are a matter for my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary.
§ Mr. FittDoes the Secretary of State agree that there is rising concern in Northern Ireland about the use of plastic bullets, in particular about the circumstances surrounding the death of the lady last week? Is he also aware of the great discontent that has been caused by a statement by his right hon. Friend the Home Secretary in the House that plastic bullets would not be used in this part of the United Kingdom for riot control? If plastic bullets are to be used in Northern Ireland, they should be used here as well. I suggest that they should not be used at all, but if they are used against only one section of the population—in Northern Ireland—that will give rise to a great deal of concern that double standards are being applied. Will the right hon. Gentleman do what he can to expedite the inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the death of the lady whom he mentioned in his original answer?
§ Mr. AtkinsNone of us wants the police to use plastic bullets anywhere in the United Kingdom. I remind the hon. Gentleman and the House of the circumstances faced by the police in Northern Ireland. They face large numbers 1372 of determined people who throw petrol bombs, acid bombs, nail bombs and blast bombs at them, and they have to protect themselves. The judgment of the Chief Constable is that the best way of containing the situation, using minimum force, is by the use of the plastic baton round. No one would be more pleased than he or I if that could be stopped. It can be stopped at any moment if the rioting stops too.
§ Mr. Peter RobinsonWill the Secretary of State take it from me that many people in Northern Ireland have been greatly encouraged not only by the actions of the security forces at the funeral of Joseph McDonnell but at the recent search and seizure operation at Divis flats, where many arms were found? Given the success of that operation, will the Secretary of State now recommend that such operations be stepped up?
§ Mr. AtkinsI shall pass on to the Chief Constable the hon. Member's congratulations. All of us are pleased when law breakers are brought to justice. That is the basis of what we are seeking to do and it is what everyone wants. The precise operations which are carried out by the police are and must remain a matter for the Chief Constable. Of course, he has my full backing in everything he does.
§ Mr. Wm. RossIs the Secretary of State aware of the increasing evidence of pressure being extended to the Roman Catholic community to support the various H block marches? What steps does he intend to take to remove from society those who are putting that pressure on the Roman Catholic population in many areas, including my village of Dungiven?
§ Mr. AtkinsAnyone who does anything unlawful should be brought before the courts. That is what we continually seek to do. I am aware that pressure is being put on people to join H block marches and other such marches. It has not been successful because it seems that attendance at such marches is not on the increase but on the decrease.