HC Deb 16 July 1981 vol 8 cc1381-6
Q1. Mr. Thomas Cox

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 16 July.

The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)

This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today.

Mr. Cox

Is the Prime Minister aware that the Government will today suffer a most humiliating defeat that will clearly indicate the total rejection of their economic policies? Does the right hon. Lady realise that if she will not start to listen to what the British people are saying and change the policies that have caused much of the social unrest that we have witnessed in the last few weeks, she should step aside and allow someone else to lead the country—someone committed to rebuilding our society rather than to its continuous destruction?

The Prime Minister

It is not unknown for by-elections in mid-term to cause problems for most Governments.

Rev. Ian Paisley

Will the right hon. Lady speak today to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland about the proposed closure of British Enkalon in Antrim, which will throw another 1,100 people out of work? Will not the right hon. Lady relax her inflexibility and give a grant to that factory?

The Prime Minister

1 am aware of the closure of British Enkalon, and the news was disappointing to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. Generous arrangements were offered to British Enkalon to share the losses, but they were not taken up. Therefore, my right hon. Friend will do everything than he can to attract further industry to that area, including the building of new advance factories.

Mr. John Silkin

As it is better for young people to lay bricks than to throw them, what hope can the Prime Minister offer to the 320,000 school leavers who are now on the dole and to the 100,000 school leavers who will he joining them next week?

The Prime Minister

The right hon. Gentleman will be aware of the pledges given by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment and myself at Question Time and during the last debate on this subject. We shall ensure that school leavers who have not got a job by Christmas are offered a place on the youth opportunities programme, and we shall increase that programme by a sufficient amount to ensure that that guarantee is met.

Mr. Cox

Go and tell them that in Brixton.

Mr. Silkin

Is not the problem one of long-term employment rather than one of job opportunities? Is it not a fact that the Manpower Services Commission has pointed out that two-thirds of young people under the age of 18 will be unemployed by 1983 unless the right hon. Lady and her Government change their policies?

The Prime Minister

If the right hon. Gentleman had read his former leader's speeches, he would know that we shall improve the prospects for employment in Britain only if we keep labour costs down, below those of our competitors.

Mr. David Steel

Even in advance of this afternoon's debate, may I ask the Prime Minister whether she is aware that yesterday I met a number of police officers in Liverpool who are doing their best—amidst some aggression and hostility—to restore good relations with the ethnic minority communities? Is she further aware that their efforts, and those of many others, will be hopelessly undermined by the type of police raid tactics seen yesterday in Brixton?

The Prime Minister

The right hon. Gentleman is unwise to make a judgment about what happened in Brixton yesterday before he can know the facts. My right hon. Friend, having had a report from those who have been to Brixton this morning, will doubtless comment about it in his speech. As regards Liverpool, I saw the strenuous efforts that the police are making to restore good relations with the community. I believe that they are succeeding. We should support the police in those efforts and encourage them in every way.

Q2. Mr. Nicholas Winterton

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 16 July.

The Prime Minister

I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Mr. Winterton

Will my right hon. Friend find time today to deplore the attitude of the "simply divine and holier than thou party" and its self-appointed leaders, Mr. Jenkins and Mrs. Williams, in seeking to lay the blame at the Government's door for many of the problems that we face? Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that these people are responsible, because Mr. Jenkins said that a permissive society was a civilised society and repealed the Riot Act and Mrs. Williams stood on the picket line at Grunwick, where we witnessed such violence and intimidation? Will my right hon. Friend assure our people that she will seek to re-establish the disciplines and aptitudes that made this country the most influential and civilised in the world?

The Prime Minister

I wholly agree that Mr. Jenkins' saying that a permissive society is a civilised society is something that most of us would totally reject. Society must have rules if it is to continue to be civilised. Those rules must be observed and upheld by Government and by all leaders throughout the community. I also agree that the incident in which two Labour Cabinet Ministers stood on the Grunwick picket line should never, never be forgotten.

Mr. Dormand

As the Prime Minister has recognised—somewhat belatedly—the North-South divide internationally, as described in the Brandt report, when will she recognise the North-South divide in this country? Does she realise that the gap continues to grow and that the unemployment figures in the five counties of the Northern region continue to be the highest in the country? Given what has happened recently in this country, will she not try the patience of the Northern people too far?

The Prime Minister

That is exactly why we have a regional aid programme and why a number of us make strenuous efforts to try to secure major overseas contracts, some of which are of great benefit to the people of the North-East and of Scotland. As regards the implication in that question, I should point out that the aid given to Liverpool and the Liverpool area last year under the Industry Act was nearly twice the amount given durng the last year of the Labour Government.

Mr. Shersby

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the vast majority of people in Britain strongly support the firm line taken with rioters and looters? However, will she consult her Cabinet colleagues to see what can be done to encourage greater public participation in the organisation of youth activities of every kind? Does she believe that this can greatly help to keep young people busily occupied—

Mr. Leighton

What about work?

Mr. Shersby

—during the summer months in worthwhile activities?

The Prime Minister

I agree that participation is needed from all groups in society to try to find things for our young people to do, to find extra jobs and to find things to occupy their spare time. Such things can never be solved by a Government alone. They must be solved by leadership at all levels, including the voluntary societies.

Dr. Owen

Is the right hon. Lady aware that the people of Warrington will speak—[Interruption.]—for England—

Mr. Skinner

What about the Scots? What about the Welsh?

Mr. Speaker

Order. We must hear the right hon. Gentleman's question.

Dr. Owen

Is the right hon. Lady aware that while she is making cheap jibes at a former distinguished Home Secretary—

Mr. Skinner

The right hon. Gentleman is trying to pinch his job.

Dr. Owen

—the people of this country are waiting for her to demonstrate from the Dispatch Box the breadth of vision, understanding and sympathy that they expect from a Prime Minister when faced by the social tensions that we have seen in the past fortnight? Is the right hon. Lady aware that throughout the past fortnight she has been supported by the Social Democrats in her bid to uphold law and order, but that she will be condemned by us and the people of this country unless she demonstrates a similar capacity to concentrate on the economic, unemployment and social problems of our inner cities?

The Prime Minister

The right hon. Gentleman said that I made cheap jibes at a former Home Secretary. I quoted a former Home Secretary. If that is a cheap jibe, it is a jibe from Mr. Jenkins' mouth. A Government must uphold law and order and expect to be supported by the vast and overwhelming majority of the people in this country. I believe that we are supported by them.

Q3. Mr. Butcher

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 16 July.

The Prime Minister

I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Mr. Butcher

Is my right hon. Friend aware that as long ago as November 1976 influential observers predicted that there would be 2.5 million unemployed by 1981? As that prediction was made by the Labour Party's finance and economic affairs committee, will my right hon. Friend use her good influence to obtain another debate in the House on unemployment so that we may have an opportunity to find out why—if the Labour Party's policies had been pursued—we would have had 2.5 million unemployed by today?

The Prime Minister

I know the prediction to which my hon. Friend referred. Indeed, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment referred to it in our last debate on employment prospects. The Labour Government also knew that there was considerable overmanning in Britain and that it would have to be dealt with. They knew that our industry was not competitive, and that until it became so we would not get the lion's share of the jobs. They also knew something that has now come to pass, namely, that the size of the labour force would increase because there were comparatively few people of retirement age while, for three years, a large number of young people would join the labour force. Even if there had not been a world recession, we should have had to find about 1 million extra jobs. That is a big task, which the Government are setting about.

Mr. John Silkin

May I say that I support the right hon. Lady when she talks about law and order? However, from my experience of my constituency may I point out that the police should never be used as an alibi for her failures and those of her Government.

The Prime Minister

The police are never used as such an alibi. It is monstrous and disgraceful that the right hon.

Gentleman should imply that they are. I hope that he will uphold the police in the actions that they take to restore law and order and that he will accept that, until law and order and public confidence have been restored, we cannot set about improving the economic or social conditions of this country.

Mr. Silkin

I support the police and law and order and I have seen them at work in my constituency. However, is not the right hon. Lady aware that public confidence is involved and that public confidence will not be gained when we have a Government who have given the country unemployment, who destroy our industry and who show a total disregard for the unity of the nation?

The Prime Minister

If there was a quick answer to unemployment, why did the right hon. Gentleman's Government have 1.6 million unemployed and why were they unable to do much about it?

Mr. Silkin

And if there was no quick answer to unemployment, why did the right hon. Lady and her party promise to give it on 3 May 1979?

The Prime Minister

I did not promise a quick answer. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh!"] In every one of my replies I give the only answer that there is to unemployment, and which is always rejected by the Opposition. The only answer there is to unemployment is to have labour costs below those of our competitors and to produce goods that the right hon. Gentleman's constituents will buy and that we can sell overseas. Until that is understood, we shall not have better job prospects. I ask even the right hon. Gentleman to recognise that there is a connection between pay and jobs—the bigger the pay increases, the bigger the unemployment.