HC Deb 22 January 1981 vol 997 cc407-9
3. Mr. Peter Mills

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he is satisfied with the position regarding conservation of fish stocks in international waters.

The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr. Alick Buchanan-Smith)

International waters, comprising those outside the fishery limits of coastal States, account for only a small proportion of catches of most species of fish.

We are responsible for enforcing conservation measures within our own fishery limits, and we welcome the Commission proposal to set up an independent inspectorate to ensure that all member States enforce these measures in their waters.

Mr. Mills

I thank the Minister for that reply. Does he not agree that we can never relax in this area? Will he also look again at what is happening in the South-West, particularly with mackerel stocks, where there is evidence of much smaller fish and smaller catches? Will he please see what he can do to curb still further the fishing in that area, since otherwise stocks will be gone? Finally, will he also reconsider the problem of the fishing of bass around Eddystone rock, where it is being raped still?

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We can never relax our efforts for proper fish conservation. The decimation of particular stocks, most of all of the herring, is an object lesson to us all. As for mackerel, we have had licensing now for about four years. Those restrictions are based on scientific evidence and we also specified for a considerable period of last year a large area in the South-West where no fishing for mackerel would take place at all. I assure him that I will watch this matter closely. As for bass, my hon. Friend will be glad to know that we are proposing an increase in the size of bass that can be caught from 26 cm to 38 cm. Those proposals will be discussed with the industry in a week or two.

Mr. Donald Stewart

How can the Minister be so complacent when he recalls the illegal French fishing which was allowed to carry on with impunity, when he recalls that he gave mackerel fishing the go-ahead in the North-West of Scotland, which will mean that that stock will go the way of the herring, and when he is making an agreement with our alleged partners, who had so little regard for conservation that they cleaned up all their own stocks?

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

I was not complacent. I said that we can never relax in this matter of conservation. I ask the right hon. Gentleman to look at the facts. He says that other countries are not enforcing the regulations. I therefore hope that I have his support in the negotiations in Europe, where there are proposals that other countries will be supervised by the Commission, for the first time in the history of the waters of Northern Europe, thus achieving proper objective supervision of conservation measures. I look forward, as those negotiations progress, to having the right hon. Gentleman's support in all those matters.

Mr. Onslow

Will my hon. Friend undertake that the Government will use all their good offices to try to break the deadlock between the Canadian Government and the American Government, which is making it impossible to secure agreement on an international convention for salmon—an agreement which is essential for the conservation of salmon stocks in the North Atlantic?

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

Yes, I give my hon. Friend an absolute assurance on that. The proposed convention is very important, if not even vital, for the preservation and conservation of salmon stocks. We shall do everything we can in relation to that convention.

Mr. James Johnson

Since the Minister accepts that there are too many vessels catching too few fish and since he is in favour of a licensing system, what chance does he think he has of persuading our sister States in the EEC to adopt a licensing system—particularly France and Denmark?

Mr. Buchanan-Smith

Licensing is simply one tool for fishery conservation. The important thing is first of all to agree total allowable catches and then to agree the proper division between the different countries concerned. We have obtained agreement in Europe on the total allowable catch. Now, we must achieve the proper division of that, as well as the important measure that I mentioned for proper objective policing.